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Off Topic UK politics and brexit ramblings

Discussion in 'Liverpool' started by Garlic Klopp, Dec 3, 2018.

  1. moreinjuredthanowen

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    #761
  2. LuisDiazgamechanger

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    Too late to cry when the head is off for Labour Leader.

    Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk
     
    #762
  3. moreinjuredthanowen

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    so we could see sparks flying this week in the house
     
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  4. moreinjuredthanowen

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    brexit 3rd last line in ssand becoming clearer

    12th March = vote on whatever may failed to secure - aka- re-vote on exact same withdrawal agreement (spoiler: result = no)
    13th March = have a vote on on leave with no deal or no. (spoiler: result = no to no deal, cos they are ****ing lunatics who have let it go this far)
    14th March = have a vote on extension. (spoiler, guess what... hell yes)

    I'm not seeing anything yet on corbyns cave in yet? anything there?
     
    #764
  5. carlthejackal

    carlthejackal Well-Known Member

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    I am now convinced that Brexit will not now happen. In that sense I agree with Farage who predicts a second referendum.

    Basically today May has given in and accepted that Brexit will not happen. Unless voters vote for her deal in 2nd referendum . Which I cannot conceive will happen when even the ultras of the ERG are against it.

    What is going to be different in May that will change matters and views? Why would the EU give us anything now knowing that sticking to their guns and being intransigent means a new referendum.

    Brexit is now dead.
     
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    Last edited: Feb 26, 2019
  6. moreinjuredthanowen

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    I dunno if she's given up, perhaps just admitted that she's been dragging this out since December knowing this is the agreement or no deal.

    I really don't know who they will get away with offering the exact withdrawal deal or no brexit as the only options.. why? cos there would be absoltuely riots in the hardliner cmaps that its too soft and too close to customs union.

    The withdrawal deal as drafted today (and the eu won't change it) is in effect a customers union as it sINEVITABLE conclusion. The whole argument about backstop is that it ties uk to a close customs union.

    the morons in the DUP got exactly what they demanded. the backstop as agreed applies to the entirety of the UK not NI so the DUP have NO SKIN IN THE GAME they are just marching up and down banging drums or something.

    No the real people unhappy with the deal are the hard line brexiteers who are wanting a reset to year zero.

    If offered the deal or no brexit then the choice is clear but theres no way a farage type would allow it, they'd get involved with civil unrest in saying their option isn't included.

    If on the other hand however the offer was the deal or hard brexit he'd be smiling and the like ofblair would be having a little snowflake whine.
     
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  7. DirtyFrank

    DirtyFrank Well-Known Member

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    Mays political future is over so if she really wants to **** with both sides.

    Get defeated again then propose a 2nd ref ...saying since "No party in parliament has presented a exit deal that will pass the new ref is":

    No Deal Brexit

    Stay In.

    You undercut Corbyns new move, you out nutters in a position where they can't say no. Everyone knows the result this time around with those specific choices
     
    #767
  8. carlthejackal

    carlthejackal Well-Known Member

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    Many observers had made the count and said earlier that unless the deal agreed was a soft one it will be turned down and the remainers will see their opportunity to “frustrate Brexit”. The ultras fell hook line and sinker into the trap.

    They are trapped now. Unless they swallow their pride and vote for May’s deal but the irony is that now even their votes are not sufficient. They need Labour to vote for that too. Many of the remainder tories will vote against too,

    In trying to get their own hardline version of Brexit the ultras will see their dream evaporate. I for one won’t shed any tears.
     
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  9. Tobes

    Tobes Warden
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    If the House votes strongly against no deal - which unless May somehow comes back with a Unicorn or the ERG suddenly decide that any Brexit is better than no Brexit - is an absolute racing certainty. Then no deal is dead. The Executive can’t allow us to fall into it and it couldn’t be used on a future ballot paper, as the House would never pass the referendum bill.

    The choice now is if the Brexiters want Brexit then they back May through gritted teeth, or it goes back to the people and then into the ****ing bin.
     
    #769
    DirtyFrank likes this.
  10. carlthejackal

    carlthejackal Well-Known Member

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    It could happen but can you imagine the likes of Rees-Mogg accepting that Britain could be trapped in perpetuity in a backstop and at the mercy of 27 countries including Spain, France and a few others that do not like Britain?
     
    #770

  11. Tobes

    Tobes Warden
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    I think their position is completely contradictory tbh mate. As the backstop is nothing more than an insurance policy, if the final trade deal includes a customs union it never happens, and if, as the ERG maintain there’s a technological solution to the entire problem, then it never happens either.

    It’s as if they don’t believe their own assertions or something <whistle>
     
    #771
  12. moreinjuredthanowen

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    We won't be.

    we will do Canada ++ or whatever nor is said.. or Norway +- or whatever.

    it'll be a customs union. simple.

    backstop is just a worse customs union.
     
    #772
  13. LuisDiazgamechanger

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    Jacob Rees-Mogg, the head of the leading Eurosceptic faction of Conservative MPs, has softened his opposition to Theresa May’s Brexit deal, amid rising hopes in Downing Street that the prime minister might win approval for a revised agreement next month.
    Mr Rees-Mogg, told the Financial Times that he was no longer insisting that the contentious “Irish backstop” be scrapped as a condition for his support for Mrs May’s deal and was prepared to consider other legal fixes to ensure it did not become permanent.
    “I think people are rather struck by her doggedness and don’t want to stand up and take a potshot at her,” he said of the prime minister he sought to unseat as leader of the Conservative party last year.
     
    #773
  14. Red Hadron Collider

    Red Hadron Collider The Hammerhead

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    .
    What a vile **** of a lifeform <grr>
     
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  15. carlthejackal

    carlthejackal Well-Known Member

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    Why are we not surprised by this turn around? The erg ultras are now seeing there’s a possibility that Brexit might not happen. So they will now punch their nose and try to support may’s deal even if it comes back completely in its original form.
    That has been Mays strategy all along. She knew that the Eu were not going to budge but that her own ultras might if faced with Brexit being indefinitely postponed.
     
    #775
  16. moreinjuredthanowen

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    I think in a democratic society it is wrong to wish to see someone hung drawn and quartered along with the other 50 or so of his co-conspirators.... but Mogg really makes it hard to stick to that principle.
     
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  17. Red Hadron Collider

    Red Hadron Collider The Hammerhead

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    He is the very worst of the ****ing lot, Smug, condescending, snobbish, hateful wretched **** <grr>
     
    #777
  18. moreinjuredthanowen

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    thats being kind TBF
     
    #778
  19. LuisDiazgamechanger

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    MPs endorse Theresa May's Brexit strategy
    MPs have voted to endorse Theresa May's Brexit strategy - but only after her government made a series of concessions to head off possible defeats.

    Labour's plan for the UK to join a customs union with the EU after Brexit was again defeated by MPs.

    Jeremy Corbyn could face pressure to get behind another EU referendum after saying he would do that if he lost.

    Brexiteer Tories voted against a call to delay Brexit if the PM's deal is rejected.

    Labour's Brexit proposals were defeated by 323 votes to 240 - a bigger margin than the last time MPs voted on them.

    MPs also rejected an SNP motion saying the UK should not leave the EU without a deal "under any circumstances" - by 324 to 288.

    Labour MP Yvette Cooper's amendment, which the government supported, was backed by 502 votes to 20, with a small group of Tory Brexiteers voting against it.

    Amendments withdrawn
    The amendment contained Theresa May's commitment on giving MPs a vote on delaying Brexit if both her deal and no-deal are rejected by MPs.

    Mrs May announced this policy as she promised MPs a meaningful vote on her deal by 12 March.

    The move was designed to head off a possible defeat when MPs voted on Ms Cooper's amendment.

    Ms Cooper did not drop her amendment, because she wanted to hold Mrs May to her word - although the government has said it accepted the proposal.

    Conservative MP Alberto Costa's amendment, which seeks to protect the rights of UK citizens in the EU and vice versa, even if there is a no-deal Brexit, was accepted by the House without a vote, after the government said they supported it.

    Mr Costa said he was still forced resign as an aide to Scottish Secretary David Mundell because of a convention that members of the government cannot table amendments to government motions.

    Conservative MP Caroline Spelman opted not to put her amendment - calling for the PM's promise to to give MPs a vote on delaying Brexit to be made legally binding - to the vote, after reassurances by the government.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47392018
     
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  20. astro

    astro Well-Known Member

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    #780

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