Off Topic Politics Thread

It is Fialka

 

In the US at least, there is a very simple thing that could have been done: they were one Supreme Court seat away from overturning Citizens United, which would have ended the campaign finance free-for-all. Alas, the GOP was able to stall Obama's appointment, and Hillary Clinton wasn't exciting enough, so now there's probably another generation of this.

 

Its the second time he has done this............The man deserves to be in a lunatic asylum.......mind you if they put him in one he would be joined by a lot of the others too.........

 

Not the second time. He constantly does it when these motions come up on Fridays with them hoping to get them through on the nod. If they'd just just put them through with a short debating time and then he would have no excuse.

That's not to say I believe him when he says this is the reason he does it. He doesn't object to everything that is put to the house this way so it seems it is more a case that it is an excuse.

Either way they should just remove that excuse. They shouldn't be putting stuff up trying to get it through without debate because at some point there will be something that really should not be done that is put through this way.

If they debate it and it is blocked still then the excuse is gone.

 

Cressida Dick says she’s a bit different and says 50% of police should be women ...

But never mentions colour ...

Maybe she’s also a bit the same?

 

Tbf, the Met have tried quite a few initiatives to recruit more from minority ethnic groups, on the not unreasonable grounds that it’s easier to build trust between police and the communities they serve, when the make up of one reflects the make up of the other.

What precisely the barriers are to recruiting more black and Asian police, is probably quite a complex question. But I don’t think resistance is coming from senior level on the force. There may be an issue with institutional racism lower down the ranks, and there may also be resistance among some in those communities to joining “the enemy” if that’s how the police are often viewed.

Anybody who joins the police risks alienating themselves from their friends , neighbors and family to some extent.

 

One of my close friends joined the police about a decade ago. He gave it up after about 2 years. He isn't a minority far from it unless ginger is a minority but he said he left in the end because so many people just see the police as an enemy. His opinion was that unless you had a daytime beat through the city centre, where people were friendly towards the police, that they were on a hiding to nothing.

He expected to be seen as "the enemy" when attending crimes but just walking (or driving) around certain areas you were "the enemy" just for wearing the uniform. Not so much race based but demographic / class based. "patrolling" around council estates or run down areas was only ever done in cars and in pairs with a riot van "on call" close by. It's a bit of a waste of time trying to uphold the law when whole communities see police as nothing other than "them."

It is no surprise that there is such a low number of applications from communities that consider themselves "us" because who wants to be seen by your own community as "them", as a traitor?

It is also quite simplistic to constantly hear people from communities that do hold an "us" opinion that they want more police presence in their area. There has to be a lot more work done within communities to fight the "them and us" narrative, not just ignore that sentiment demanding more police.

 

Given their history with the Black Community they are going to have to do some serious work on this and in my opinion if she's talking about the make up of the force she should also mention ethnis background otherwise she's effectively saying the force should contain more white women

There are some very good reasons why some communities view them as the enemy, Sus, Stop & Search, Stephen Lawrence to name 3
It takes a long time and a lot of effort to change the culture of an institution

 

I think you'll find the "us" groups you refer to were being treated as "them" by the Met, you make it sound like it was the other way round

 

It works both ways is what I am saying. As much as there "may" be institutional racism still within the met there is a lot of talk from community leaders, bodies and political voices about what should happen when there is not much effort to address the mistrust which is stoked up as much from within the communities as from outside.

For all the talk of populism on other "wider" matters there is and has been a lot of it in smaller waves often on smaller issues within all sorts of different aspects where we have problems. Quite often it is in certain people's interests to make sure that divides are maintained or increased rather than any attempt made to reduce or eradicate them.

I'm not sure I understand what you are meaning by your statement to be honest. Of course one side will see themselves as "us" and vice versa.

If I am the police then police is "us". If I am a community member then the community is "us." That is how that works in that scenario. Not sure what you mean that "us" groups were being treated as "them." Whichever side you are on the other side is "them."

 

I don’t know how accurate this is, but if just a few of these claims are true, a trade deal with the USA, without the protection of EU legislation, will be a disaster for the U.K..

 

The police have been aware since the Scarman report following the Brixton riots in 1981, that they needed to change their culture. They have taken steps - all too slowly, but they have taken them- since then to address the problem, and they have had plenty of time to address the issues. I don’t think all the problems are coming from the police.

A black friend of mine joined the Met many years ago now. He has definitely experienced racism from a minority of fellow officers, but says he has received only support and encouragement from his superiors. He regularly receives torrents of abuse from black members of the public.

This issue with how the police are perceived isn’t confined to the black community btw, as Imps has said. Becoming a copper is to invite suspicion and ostracism from any quarter really; it pretty much goes with the territory, the mere fact of being a copper, however enlightened or well intentioned, automatically makes a person one of “them”.

 

Absolutely! Any trade deal is NOT going to be as good as any through the EU, as we’re in a much weaker bargaining position. Do not understand how people can’t see this!
What a ****ing triumph

 

Watch, listen and understand! “Unelected” officials? This lays it out clearly.
Only 34% bothered to vote in EU elections and then say we aren’t represented?

 

Yup. It seemed most were against the trade deal the EU were trying with America but now we're in a weaker bargaining position we're going to have to offer up even more concessions to other governments and big business to attract them to come here in order to protect our economy. We have far less control.

 

Whatever happens regarding Brexit, I hope there is an early election and the Tories are absolutely hammered by the electorate for the farce that has taken place over Brexit. What Madame May shoud have done but didn't, was to have appointed a commission to study all the Brexit scenarios and then come up with one to put to the Government before any Brexit process began. But of course, short termism reigns supreme in the UK. Profit before investment.!!

 

I have to admit as I’ve said previously I was so surprised she did not involve all the main parties in the negotiations.
I also have to say who ever was negotiating was on a hiding to nothing. Especially as all the main parties wanted us to stay in. As a consequence we have this mess.

 

Whatever happens, indeed, but I think there’s a hell of a lot of voters who won’t forgive May & the Tories for what a balls up they’ve made, BUT will also not forgive Corbyn and his merry band (hopefully) for not going against the Tories.
It would be great if only there were another party who could get voted in and kick all these idiots out. Lib Dem anyone? Pity they shots themselves in the foot by propping the Tories up too .....

 

I absolve all the other parties from the Brexit fiasco. It is all down to the Tories. They were elected, chose to have a referéndum with little thought or planning into the risks, the scenarios, built-in safety measures, and then when the result was announced, have rushed headlong into the process with absolutely no plan or strategy. So this is entirely the fault of the Tories, and lets hope they get slaughtered whenever the election comes. For me it cannot come soon enough to get rid of this wretched Government.