Match Day Thread Bolton v Leeds Utd Match Thread

Nice to see you've upgraded him from a busted flush to a fcking disaster.

I'm sorry that in his (Orta's) first season we didn't walk the League but perhaps Siaz, Hernandez and Forshaw missing large parts of the season might have had something to do with that., not to mention selling our 30 goal a season striker just before the deadline.

He tried to bring in PL quality in Pennington and Borthwick Jackson which didn't work out, so yes mistakes were made and will continue to be made as it's the nature of football when making signings. If anything those loan mistakes have been repeated this season with Harrison and Baker not adding enough but I don't see you accusing him of failure presently although I"m pretty sure you're primed and at the ready as soon as the opportunity presents itself.

Some of us believed he was and still is doing an ok job...not fantastic, not brilliant but reasonable enough to be given more time. We could balance some of the good things against the bad rather than demand his dismissal before he'd had a fair crack of the whip.

 

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Sorry lads, unless you're Millwall who are a Lg1 outfit at best and they're going back there in May anyway

 

Monk had another year of his contract to run and specifically asked to be released from it. He was appointed at Boro a few weeks later and so engineered his departure from Leeds without us receiving compensation.

He thought Boro was his ticket back to the big time and he was wrong...not sure I understand your sympathy for him and I'm pretty sure most Leeds fans feel the same.

 

Here’s what you said:
“Also would anyone like to apologise for the ridiculous and sometimes vitriolic criticism dished out to Victor Orta prior to this season ?

Seems he was actually doing a great jobrecruiting some fine prospects whilst thepatience of a gnat was being displayed onhere.”

Seems like you’ve downgraded great job to ok job.

Not primed and ready for anything jammy. No need to get so passive aggressive just because you're unable to admit you’re losing an argument. I’ll just keep chopping the arms and legs off and you can claim it’s a flesh wound and ask for a draw.

Orta had his time at boro to learn his lessons about the requirements of British football.

What part of two poor coach appointments, the team being worse than the previous year and a bunch of signings that failed to significantly benefit or feature in the team in the short or medium term, whilst blowing cash on long term deals and u23s that (according to radz left the club skint) constitutes ok in your book?

I’ve no problem with the club trying to take loan deals when they don’t have the cash for perms, though we may have had cash for perms if we hadn’t spunked it the year before. Seemingly we nearly got Harvey Barnes, in the summer and didn’t through no fault of our own. Maybe Orta’s learning, maybe he’s just made a few mistakes in the past and been unlucky, maybe it was just hard working to a budget. It’s all conjecture. I’m just dealing with the facts. His record last year was poor.

You’re the one expecting people to eat humble pie. Pick a more defendable ‘victim’ next him, or eat a slice yourself when the facts don’t suit your narrative.

 

He got offered 3 years and autonomy at boro, there was an option, note option, to extend his Leeds contract by 12 months... it didn’t have 12 months to run.

It didn’t work out at boro, he’ll have a nice payout and walked into another long term deal at Birmingham. I’m not sympathetic to him, but had radz offered him a 3 year contract he might have stayed. It’s ridiculous to expect loyalty when it’s a one way street. Monk is not a Leeds fan, he put his career first.

 

Football is not an exact science, all teams sign players that don't work out. it seems to me that overall Orta has been successful for us. Your opinion is your opinion but it doesn't mean you are right.

 

Duke, it’s all just opinions and of course all teams sign plenty of players that don’t work out for one reason or another.

My first post (in reply to jammy’s one demanding apologies from his critics for poor old victor) said, that his role in getting bielsa trumped his earlier mistakes. If we go up this year he’s been great for us.

Judge him on his first year objectively and you can hardly call it a ‘great job’... stevie wonder can see why he was copping flak.

 

Happy to clear that up for you Milky...

The great job was recruiting prospects for the U23's, whilst the ok job was for the first team with Siaz and Forshaw, Allioski etc.

At Boro he was recruiting for the PL so totally different budgets and requirements.

Also not sure which rule book you're playing by but winning an argument by self declaration shouldn't be in any of them.

The question was " would anyone like to aplogise ? " no victims were sought, the question was merely put to the forum to see who, if any, had changed their point of view.

To move onto your post about Monk, it was us the club that had an option to extend for a further year. He did not have the right contractually to leave if we took up that option...we chose not to at his request. It was across all the media that Boro wanted him so we could have played hard ball and made them make an official approach but took the sensible approach to let a coach leave who was not committed to us. Yes, Radz could have offered him a longer contract but felt his performance the previous season did not warrant it at that stage. Bates/Cellino etc I'm sure would not have treated Monk so generously in my opinion after being on the other end of contracts and so often having to pay severance/gardening leave when relieving managers/coaches of their duties.

 

I play by my rule book jammy. The one where i’m always right. You’re playing by yours, where you make a comment, flippant or otherwise to get a reaction and then either/or/and reinvent what you said/meant, ignore the salient facts, deflect or plead innocence. Both are fairly standard Internet forum playbooks.

Enjoy your curry

 

Basically, he's our buyer of talent - when the team's winning we doff our hats, when it's losing we point our fingers.

We might be right or wrong, but in the end who gives a toss? It's not as if our opinions make any difference.

 

Not always the case Davy...I see Orta at virtually every home game, so towards the end of last season decided to offer him some words of encouragement.

Basically said, thanks for all your efforts and keep at it and eventually it will come good.

Perhaps without my words of comfort he would have jumped ship and then no Bielsa and god knows what.

Was hoping to pass on Milky's apologies or at least tell Victor he's winning over some of the more critical fans but alas he's still not convinced.

 

Radz, Orta, Bielsa - somebody's doing something right at the moment Jammy, because I believe we're getting a greater points return from this group than they actually deserve, and long may it continue.

A DoF in the UK will know that he'll never please all the fans at any given moment never mind all the time, so I don't think he'll lose much sleep over the apologies of one or two on here.

 

My opinion is that Orta took stick last year when the reality was that both managers didnt use his purchases correctly. We know Grot has always come in off the left to score his goals he isnt a lone striker, has never even tried to play as a lone striker. So grot took stick and it wasnt his fault. LDB isn't a wing back but was pushed into that role a few times. The fact is he only became available because his club changed manager who used a wing back and that meant LDB was surplus. Klich was abused and sent out on loan.

 

Victor Orta, remember it takes more than one swallow to make a summer.
As far as I am concerned he is still on trial, but then again so is Radz.
My humble opinion only.

 

Admittedly I sometimes have to tailor my posts due to the perceived level of annoyance occurring but as we can't afford to lose any more forum members I consider it a small price to pay.

 

Hey up Doc.

You better forecast a 3-0 victory against Villa otherwise it'll all be your fault if we don't win/draw.

 

So the fact Orta's still here, the fact Bielsa is at Leeds, and the fact we're top of the league, is basically all down to you? ffs get over yourself Jammy

 

Sorry to upset the apple cart, I still don't think Orta is that great, it's Bielsa moulding a team together who should take the credit. Who are the best players, Pontus, Roofe, Phillips, Pablo, Ayling, out of the starting 11 when all are fit how many are Orta signings?

Yes he was influential in getting Bielsa but what about TC and PH before him?

Fails:
Yosuke Ideguchi
Cameron Borthwick-Jackson
Lewis Baker
Pawel Cibicki
Andy Lonergan
Felix Wiedwald
Jay-Roy Grot
Laurens De Bock
Hadi Sacko
Caleb Ekuban
Vurnon Anita
Matthew Pennington

Average to Questionable by some:
Alioski
Tyler Roberts

 

Read my first reply on this thread. I love vic I do.