The Early Breakfast Debate (Fri 14th Nov)

  • Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
  • Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!
Morning all
If saiz's heart is not in it,then let him go,were on a promotion push for god's sake.To get to the premier league will take 100% commitment from all players concerned,no half hearted attempts,which could rock the boat from any individual Saiz included.Saiz discontent could also have been playing a small part in recent performances,no give me Brown maybe or suchlike who will give 100% to the cause,because as talented as saiz is no one is indispensable. MOT everyone because Leeds will be promoted this season with or without Saiz and when this happens he will be just a distant memory.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Farsleyexile, ellandback and FORZA LEEDS
southernwhite said:
Morning all
If saiz's heart is not in it,then let him go,were on a promotion push for god's sake.To get to the premier league will take 100% commitment from all players concerned,no half hearted attempts,which could rock the boat from any individual Saiz included.Saiz discontent could also have been playing a small part in recent performances,no give me Brown maybe or suchlike who will give 100% to the cause,because as talented as saiz is no one is indispensable. MOT everyone because Leeds will be promoted this season with or without Saiz and when this happens he will be just a distant memory.
Click to expand...
No I don't think we will go up without Saiz,unless we spend £10-£15 million on say Brentfords no 10 and I don't see that happening.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ellandback
Good Morning to Matt and co from a frosty Bardsey
Is the fact that 11 sports are in deep financial difficulties attributing to this bizarre transfer I wonde rand if so who else will be going the vultures are already circling ER
I for one say get rid but get a very good price for him no one is bigger than the clubI just hope the rest stays but Roofe could bring a few million inAR needs to come out and tell us what is plans are but that isn't going to happen a very unsatisfactory situation just when all seemed to be going well.We will know more after Sat result
 
  • Like
Reactions: ristac and ellandback
southernwhite said:
Morning all
If saiz's heart is not in it,then let him go,were on a promotion push for god's sake.To get to the premier league will take 100% commitment from all players concerned,no half hearted attempts,which could rock the boat from any individual Saiz included.Saiz discontent could also have been playing a small part in recent performances,no give me Brown maybe or suchlike who will give 100% to the cause,because as talented as saiz is no one is indispensable. MOT everyone because Leeds will be promoted this season with or without Saiz and when this happens he will be just a distant memory.
Click to expand...
So the club should bullshit and PR spin their fans (as per the opening post) when they already know that Saiz has his medical booked for Monday with Getafe.

Replacement value for Saiz? 10-12m?

Saiz has 2 1/2 yrs left on his contract. We're loaning him out for nothing.

Are you saying we couldn't get 5m for him?
 
  • Like
Reactions: ristac and lifecheshirewhite
leeds60 said:
Good Morning to Matt and co from a frosty Bardsey
Is the fact that 11 sports are in deep financial difficulties attributing to this bizarre transfer I wonde rand if so who else will be going the vultures are already circling ER
I for one say get rid but get a very good price for him no one is bigger than the clubI just hope the rest stays but Roofe could bring a few million inAR needs to come out and tell us what is plans are but that isn't going to happen a very unsatisfactory situation just when all seemed to be going well.We will know more after Sat result
Click to expand...
Morning Mike, I just don't like the way how the ER spin doctors have drip fed us information from yesterday morning to yesterday evenings events when he already has his medical booked.



David Cartlidge‏Verified account@davidjaca

Torres said some players at Getafe already know who it is, but he couldn’t name the player tonight as “it would anger the English team”. Sáiz would arrive as a loan, with option to buy.

David Cartlidge is an editor for ESPN and journo for Talksport
 
ellandback said:
So the club should bullshit and PR spin their fans (as per the opening post) when they already know that Saiz has his medical booked for Monday with Getafe.

Replacement value for Saiz? 10-12m?

Saiz has 2 1/2 yrs left on his contract. We're loaning him out for nothing.

Are you saying we couldn't get 5m for him?
Click to expand...
I'm sure plenty of clubs would pay £5m for Saiz, however you need to remember that its actually a limited market that we are selling to, ie Saiz is homesick and wants to return to Spain, thus we can't go and just sell him to any old club that wants to buy him.

This then reduces his price a little further, as those Spanish clubs that may want and be able to afford Saiz, know that the competition for his signature is reduced and thus they can negotiate from a better position.

Bielsa is all about doing what is right for his playing staff, and it wouldn't surprise me if the club have been trying to arrange this for a while, and maybe the fact that Getafe are the only club willing to take him on at present under terms that are semi willing to meet our terms, ie pay his wages etc.

It's easy as football fans to say tough, he's got 2 1/2 years on his contract, and if he isn't bothered then just let him rot in the reserves etc, but depending on what rumours you want to believe, then its not that Saiz is unhappy at the club, he is totally unsettled in the UK and this is obviously affecting his playing ability, and he just wants to return to his home and family, and that is something where I can see Bielsa being the one to put the player first and saying to the club, that we need to do what is best for the actual player.

Do I as a Leeds fan want Saiz to leave - Not really
Do I as a Leeds fan want to get the best possible price for him if he does leave - Of course I do
Do I as a human being understand that even in the world of football, you sometimes have to put a players concerns before those of the club you support. - Darn right I do

Whilst it is easy for us all to get high and mighty about the situation, none of us are privy to the conversations between Saiz and the club (unless someone wants to enlighten us all that is, and not just grapevine conversations), and just maybe this rumoured deal with Getafe is the best option all round for both player and club.

I do agree that it would be so much better if the club just came out and said

"Saiz is homesick and wishes to return to both his family and to playing football in Spain. Having had lengthy discussions with Samuel and having spoken to a number of Spanish clubs, and have concluded that in the interest of both player and club, Samuel will be joining Getafe on loan until he end of the season with an option to purchase etc etc".

However I don't see it as a conspiracy as you mentioned in the OP, I imagine that everything they have said there is true, but I do agree that there was no need to actually try and sugar coat the fact behind the move.

Of course all of the above presumes that Saiz isnt pulling the wool over our eyes, and that as soon as he is no longer a Leeds player, he then mysteriously becomes unhomesick and gets a massive transfer away from Spain again ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Farsleyexile, Whitejock and FORZA LEEDS
Morbid_White said:
I'm sure plenty of clubs would pay £5m for Saiz, however you need to remember that its actually a limited market that we are selling to, ie Saiz is homesick and wants to return to Spain, thus we can't go and just sell him to any old club that wants to buy him.

This then reduces his price a little further, as those Spanish clubs that may want and be able to afford Saiz, know that the competition for his signature is reduced and thus they can negotiate from a better position.

Bielsa is all about doing what is right for his playing staff, and it wouldn't surprise me if the club have been trying to arrange this for a while, and maybe the fact that Getafe are the only club willing to take him on at present under terms that are semi willing to meet our terms, ie pay his wages etc.

It's easy as football fans to say tough, he's got 2 1/2 years on his contract, and if he isn't bothered then just let him rot in the reserves etc, but depending on what rumours you want to believe, then its not that Saiz is unhappy at the club, he is totally unsettled in the UK and this is obviously affecting his playing ability, and he just wants to return to his home and family, and that is something where I can see Bielsa being the one to put the player first and saying to the club, that we need to do what is best for the actual player.

Do I as a Leeds fan want Saiz to leave - Not really
Do I as a Leeds fan want to get the best possible price for him if he does leave - Of course I do
Do I as a human being understand that even in the world of football, you sometimes have to put a players concerns before those of the club you support. - Darn right I do

Whilst it is easy for us all to get high and mighty about the situation, none of us are privy to the conversations between Saiz and the club (unless someone wants to enlighten us all that is, and not just grapevine conversations), and just maybe this rumoured deal with Getafe is the best option all round for both player and club.

I do agree that it would be so much better if the club just came out and said

"Saiz is homesick and wishes to return to both his family and to playing football in Spain. Having had lengthy discussions with Samuel and having spoken to a number of Spanish clubs, and have concluded that in the interest of both player and club, Samuel will be joining Getafe on loan until he end of the season with an option to purchase etc etc".

However I don't see it as a conspiracy as you mentioned in the OP, I imagine that everything they have said there is true, but I do agree that there was no need to actually try and sugar coat the fact behind the move.

Of course all of the above presumes that Saiz isnt pulling the wool over our eyes, and that as soon as he is no longer a Leeds player, he then mysteriously becomes unhomesick and gets a massive transfer away from Spain again ;)
Click to expand...

Morning Morbid,

If Messi told Barcelona he was homesick and he wanted to return to Argentina. Do you think they would loan him out to the first club that shows any interest?

Least season, and even at the begining of this season, Saiz was our Messi!
 
  • Like
Reactions: ristac
Morbid_White said:
Of course all of the above presumes that Saiz isnt pulling the wool over our eyes, and that as soon as he is no longer a Leeds player, he then mysteriously becomes unhomesick and gets a massive transfer away from Spain again ;)
Click to expand...

I remember when Ian Dowie was manager of Palace and he asked to be released from his contract as he and his family were homesick and wanted to return to Lancashire.

A couple of weeks later he ended up down the road at Charlton <doh>
 
  • Like
Reactions: Farsleyexile, wakeybreakyheart, Morbid_White and 3 others
Exactly the loan deal stinks and we get nothing in return the transfer window doesn’t open for a couple of weeks so why not wait and see who offers money for him in January?

Sit him down, tell him we’ll sell at a loss even at the end of the season if he knuckles down and helps win us promotion
 
  • Like
Reactions: ellandback and Gessa
ellandback said:
Morning Morbid,

If Messi told Barcelona he was homesick and he wanted to return to Argentina. Do you think they would loan him out to the first club that shows any interest?

Least season, and even at the begining of this season, Saiz was our Messi!
Click to expand...

If Messi was overweight and unfit and affecting his attitude, and his playing ability then I hope that they would explore every possibility available, as I am sure that they would spend months trying to sort the issue out prior to any announcement. But for some reason you are presuming that we as a club havent done this, and that we are just jumping at the first offer that comes our way, when for all we know this is the best offer out of 10 others from Spanish clubs, that are both acceptable to us as a club and also Saiz as a player.

As I said in my post Ell, we are not privy to the conversations between Saiz and the club, and thus we are reacting to "rumours". I use homesick as a generic term, I am sure there is a lot more behind this, that we actually don't need to be made aware of, even if we would like to be.

I wouldnt be surprised if these issues began in the summer, the club and Bielsa I am sure would have said we will do everything we can to help, but lets give it 6 months and see how you feel. Saiz has come back in lets say October and said he still wants to go back to Spain for a variety of reasons.

The club then talk to numerous Spanish clubs, and it ends up in December that only one club is interested in taking Saiz, thus they are not the first club to show an interest, but maybe the only club that is willing/able to actually meet some of our terms, and Yes maybe the club are putting the player before themselves in this situation, maybe that could intimate how serious they are concerned about the issues that Samuel has,.

We do not know, and I imagine that we never will know, (until one of the parties writes their autobiography maybe), but of course you seem to be convinced that the club are doing everything wrong in this situation, without actually knowing the precise discussions between both the player and the two clubs involved (unless you have more information that you want to share with us), and I thought I was meant to be one of our more pessimistic posters :D

Or to put it another way, Saiz didnt say last weekend I'm homesick and want to go home, and then the club jump at the Getafe loan offer just like that
 
  • Like
Reactions: Whitejock, Farsleyexile, FORZA LEEDS and 1 other person
Do I want him to leave? Of course not. Is he a massive loss? Not really this season as everyone else has stepped up, we have Brown waiting in the wings and Harrison breaking though. We will be fine, It's neither a clever move for the club or one I would sanction either.
 
  • Like
Reactions: OLOF, Whitejock, Farsleyexile and 2 others
ristac said:
Exactly the loan deal stinks and we get nothing in return the transfer window doesn’t open for a couple of weeks so why not wait and see who offers money for him in January?

Sit him down, tell him we’ll sell at a loss even at the end of the season if he knuckles down and helps win us promotion
Click to expand...

Whilst that would be the best for us, maybe the club are more concerned about the player's issues than many of us on here appear to be.

All this wont have just been raised in the last week or so, I pretty much imagine that the club had that conversation back in the summer or early part of the season, and maybe just maybe its come to such a position that apart from us fans, this is the best solution that the club have been able to negotiate in the interest of all parties concerned.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Whitejock
FORZA LEEDS said:
I remember when Ian Dowie was manager of Palace and he asked to be released from his contract as he and his family were homesick and wanted to return to Lancashire.

A couple of weeks later he ended up down the road at Charlton <doh>
Click to expand...
Hence why I added that comment to the bottom of my long post, Saiz may be pulling a fast one, not that I think he is, given how the club appear to be reacting.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Whitejock and FORZA LEEDS
Morbid_White said:
If Messi was overweight and unfit and affecting his attitude, and his playing ability then I hope that they would explore every possibility available, as I am sure that they would spend months trying to sort the issue out prior to any announcement. But for some reason you are presuming that we as a club havent done this, and that we are just jumping at the first offer that comes our way, when for all we know this is the best offer out of 10 others from Spanish clubs, that are both acceptable to us as a club and also Saiz as a player.

As I said in my post Ell, we are not privy to the conversations between Saiz and the club, and thus we are reacting to "rumours". I use homesick as a generic term, I am sure there is a lot more behind this, that we actually don't need to be made aware of, even if we would like to be.

I wouldnt be surprised if these issues began in the summer, the club and Bielsa I am sure would have said we will do everything we can to help, but lets give it 6 months and see how you feel. Saiz has come back in lets say October and said he still wants to go back to Spain for a variety of reasons.

The club then talk to numerous Spanish clubs, and it ends up in December that only one club is interested in taking Saiz, thus they are not the first club to show an interest, but maybe the only club that is willing/able to actually meet some of our terms, and Yes maybe the club are putting the player before themselves in this situation, maybe that could intimate how serious they are concerned about the issues that Samuel has,.

We do not know, and I imagine that we never will know, (until one of the parties writes their autobiography maybe), but of course you seem to be convinced that the club are doing everything wrong in this situation, without actually knowing the precise discussions between both the player and the two clubs involved (unless you have more information that you want to share with us), and I thought I was meant to be one of our more pessimistic posters :D

Or to put it another way, Saiz didnt say last weekend I'm homesick and want to go home, and then the club jump at the Getafe loan offer just like that
Click to expand...

I am certainly not ITK but I have read all the facts from the articles, along with reliable LUFC journo's, pieced it together, and here is it... :1980_boogie_down:

Here are the facts.

FACT YEP report on Wednesday night / Thursday morning that Saiz has a massive fitness problem (though by looking at him, I reckon I could name 23 Championship teams that would take him in his present conditioning).

FACT By lunchtime the reports from the media were saying that sources close to Saiz were surprised that he had not left in the Summer indicating the Spanard had been homesick earlier the previous season. The wording of the article made me that that Saiz was on borrowed time at Elland Road.

FACT At 5pm Phil Hay tweeted 'omg, out of the blue' Saiz is homesick, and Getafe were interested in signing him.

FACT This morning we learnt that Saiz will be at Getafe's game on Saturday (tomorrow) and his medical is booked on Monday regarding a loan move.


We were drip fed negative information though out the day hoping when the Getafe story broke, there would be less resistance.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Morbid_White
bucks_is_leeds said:
Do I want him to leave? Of course not. Is he a massive loss? Not really this season as everyone else has stepped up, we have Brown waiting in the wings and Harrison breaking though. We will be fine, It's neither a clever move for the club or one I would sanction either.
Click to expand...

I agree Bucks that it doesnt appear to be a clever move, and the way the club has been run under previous regimes, these type of issues will always be compared to what has happened previously and thus be deemed with some degree of suspicion. However, maybe because of of everything you hear about how Bielsa treats his players, I am more inclined to believe that the club are doing this for the right reasons, and thus I would say that its impossible to say whether this is an action that any of us would/could sanction without knowing about 90% more details, but for some reason I am unable to explain I can understand that this may be the best solution all round, even if as a fan I would prefer it to be more favourable to the club.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bucks_is_leeds
ellandback said:
I am certainly not ITK but I have read all the facts from the articles, along with reliable LUFC journo's, pieced it together, and here is it... :1980_boogie_down:

Here are the facts.

FACT YEP report on Wednesday night / Thursday morning that Saiz has a massive fitness problem (though by looking at him, I reckon I could name 23 Championship teams that would take him in his present conditioning).

FACT By lunchtime the reports from the media were saying that sources close to Saiz were surprised that he had not left in the Summer indicating the Spanard had been homesick earlier the previous season. The wording of the article made me that that Saiz was on borrowed time at Elland Road.

FACT At 5pm Phil Hay tweeted 'omg, out of the blue' Saiz is homesick, and Getafe were interested in signing him.

FACT This morning we learnt that Saiz will be at Getafe's game on Saturday (tomorrow) and his medical is booked on Monday regarding a loan move.


We were drip fed negative information though out the day hoping when the Getafe story broke, there would be less resistance.
Click to expand...


And I think I said I agreed with you that the club could have handled the announcement better and not tried to sugar coat the issues, that still however does not change my perspective about the situation.

Nor was I suggesting that you knew stuff going on behind the scenes any more than any of us Ell. however I am suggesting that we are only being told 10% of the story, because we probably don't need to know the other 90%.

Although I did notice that in an article published on 18th October in the YEP by Phil Hay that he said this about Saiz

The past 12 months have been mixed for Saiz; scintillating at his best but humiliating when he was cited for spitting in an FA Cup tie in January and morale-sapping as last season’s early promise faded away. There were suggestions in Spain at the very start of this summer that Saiz, whose contract runs to 2021, was keen to go home and he lacked fitness, trailing behind in pre-season, after Bielsa first walked through the door.
Click to expand...

So nothing that has been said in the press in the last day or so, should come as a surprise to us, given that both the journalist and the publication you have mentioned, wrote a story about similar facts over 2 month ago
 
Last edited:
Morbid_White said:
If Messi was overweight and unfit and affecting his attitude, and his playing ability then I hope that they would explore every possibility available, as I am sure that they would spend months trying to sort the issue out prior to any announcement. But for some reason you are presuming that we as a club havent done this, and that we are just jumping at the first offer that comes our way, when for all we know this is the best offer out of 10 others from Spanish clubs, that are both acceptable to us as a club and also Saiz as a player.

As I said in my post Ell, we are not privy to the conversations between Saiz and the club, and thus we are reacting to "rumours". I use homesick as a generic term, I am sure there is a lot more behind this, that we actually don't need to be made aware of, even if we would like to be.

I wouldnt be surprised if these issues began in the summer, the club and Bielsa I am sure would have said we will do everything we can to help, but lets give it 6 months and see how you feel. Saiz has come back in lets say October and said he still wants to go back to Spain for a variety of reasons.

The club then talk to numerous Spanish clubs, and it ends up in December that only one club is interested in taking Saiz, thus they are not the first club to show an interest, but maybe the only club that is willing/able to actually meet some of our terms, and Yes maybe the club are putting the player before themselves in this situation, maybe that could intimate how serious they are concerned about the issues that Samuel has,.

We do not know, and I imagine that we never will know, (until one of the parties writes their autobiography maybe), but of course you seem to be convinced that the club are doing everything wrong in this situation, without actually knowing the precise discussions between both the player and the two clubs involved (unless you have more information that you want to share with us), and I thought I was meant to be one of our more pessimistic posters :D

Or to put it another way, Saiz didnt say last weekend I'm homesick and want to go home, and then the club jump at the Getafe loan offer just like that
Click to expand...
You really think nothing is the best offer we can get for Saiz,looks like his agent has probably contacted Getafe as the transfer window ain't even open.Should be told,going nowhere untill we can replace,probably summer.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ristac
Morbid_White said:
And I think I said I agreed with you that the club could have handled the announcement better and not tried to sugar coat the issues, that still however does not change my perspective about the situation.

Nor was I suggesting that you knew stuff going on behind the scenes any more than any of us Ell. however I am suggesting that we are only being told 10% of the story, because we probably don't need to know the other 90%
Click to expand...
The truth is out there Morbid.

I'll be Mulder,you can be Scully, and lets go and find the truth out... <laugh>
 
  • Like
Reactions: Morbid_White
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back