Exactly what Nuts said to you! You are a giant contradiction if there ever was one. No wonder nobody takes you seriously on here
The one thing I would say in Ellers defence, despite entirely disagreeing with his stance on Ireland, is that at least he is willing to have a stab at answering the question, unlike certain others who when asked the difficult but crucial questions claim that the answers are "above their pay grade" and refuse to even try to answer them. To have such strong opinions on a topic that will impact on the livelihood of many individuals, but to refuse to engage on the tricky questions is slightly reprehensible...
I rather fear that times have not changed as much as you might think. I visited Belfast for the first time last last Easter. I fully acknowledge that does not make me an expert. My personal observation, however, is that the peace is fragile. We drove through the Shankhill Road and Falls Road. We also walked through London(Derry) the day there had been a riot which was not reported in the UK News. A most interesting discussion with a local who told me that it's all simmering under a very thin surface and would not take much for it to boil over. One person's view. Is it actually possible that the folk who are concerned about this issue might just have access to information we don't and have legitimate concerns based on that information? Do not be seduced by the relative peace of the last two decades. It has not yet offset centuries of blood feud.
Except for people that agree with his point of view. But trying to discuss politics when opinions are so divided is pointless. The EU always was a political project that under the Germany/France socialist hegemony would always dictate the agenda. The UK's mistake was to try and be part it. Of course Brussels will do everything in their power to make divorce virtually possible, because if they didn't, the entire project would gradually unravel, and the rotten core would be exposed.
Your reply could also be interpreted as 'I don't get what this fella is saying so I'll just disrespect him personally'. Brexiters from Gove downwards - 'we've had enough of expert's- have been doing that for three years. It's time to present cogent, well reasoned arguments that stand up to reasonable scrutiny about why this collosal clusterbuck is going to be so good for the UK. Random derogatory remarks are inadequate.
Thank you Quality and KPD for those responses. I will always agree that sometimes I will come across brash and not always on somebodies Christmas list however I will debate and if wrong hold my hands up. Sadly like my EU army prediction a while back, some cannot act the same way. They were quick enough to tell me I was talking “sh22e” but hid when the news was confirmed by Merkel/ Macron..
Just to be clear, I completely disagree with you - and don't think you're backing up your Ireland point well - but you efforts and persistence deserve some credit ;-)
Yep, that about sums it up. For me personally; I live 4 miles from the border. I don’t want a return to the troubles. I don’t want to be going to golf matches across Ulster and hearing hard line unionists calling us fenians. I love socializing in Belfast. I don’t want to have to worry whether I’m in the right pub or not. Whether my car is parked in the right spot or not. My eldest son goes to occasional gigs in Belfast. I don’t want to have to worry every minute he’s away. My drive to work takes me through the north for about 10 minutes. I don’t want to be stopped and searched every day. I don’t want those extremist republican ***** gaining popularity again. I don’t want to see RUC and British soldiers across the North. I don’t want bombs going off in NI and eventually in the UK and wondering what British people think of us Irish. Wondering are they looking at me when they hear an Irish accent. Smart jibes and digs being thrown. You think I’m exaggerating. These are my recollections of a not so distant past. And I have friends and relations who’s very livelihood depends on cross border trade and freedom of movement. So yes, I’m extremely concerned about this mess. Make no bones about it, if there is a No deal or hard Brexit, there will be trouble ahead over here.
Cheers RTID that is the sort of response that I can work with and not “ you know sh2t about Ireland” or the other comments. Sadly the media do not always report stuff and it is a shame that after all these years it could still be a powder keg.
I've been trying to ignore it, but you keep banging on about the suggestion of an EU army and how some people should admit that they were wrong. Who should? The EU army stuff was part of the Leave campaign's own Project Fear along with the threat of millions of Turks turning up on our doorsteps. The fact is, it couldn't have happened while we were an EU member because we would have vetoed it. Even after we've left (if we do), it's highly unlikely to happen because there will be others among the 27 remaining members that would also exercise their vetoes. The fact that Macron and Merkel have talked about it doesn't make it a fait accompli.
It’s only my opinion when I say this but I don’t think Europe would ever vote to allow Turkey into the EU. Secondly and this is fact. The EU has had a de-facto army in place for the last 10 years with its multi facated Battle Group concept. I know, because I was in one, and guess what so were the UK. It didn’t work and neither will the concept of a European Army. Interoperability was impossible. Doctrine, weapons, logistics could not be matched. Countries would not be prepared to lose their military hardware business. It’s a pipe dream. Dead in the bed.
Tbh I didn’t think that the leave campaign mentioned it that much... I maybe wrong. Agree Farage and co used to veto the idea but now they are gone it gives the Fraco/German an easier ride. For me it will happen and the voices have been getting louder. You said yourself that I have been banging on about it. I heard an interesting call on LBC today that The French want this especially after the US embarrassed Hollande over a bombing operation where they told the French to stand down. Lots of Eastern EU states worried about Russia and want protecting. I believe there will be conscripts. Watch this space.i don’t fear a Euro army I just would want them to defend me.
What I meant was, you keep banging on about how certain people should admit that they were wrong about an EU army. Who are they? And how are they wrong?
As I've said on here before, I lived in Belfast for three years in the early 90s, the troubles were at their peak, and having a London accent sometimes didn't go down too well. Regular bombings, shootings, punishment attacks, riots, roadblocks (both by Army/RUC and illegal ones) - not something I would like to see return. I still go over a couple of times a year for work, and the peace is as fragile as Grant Halls fitness - these people on both sides of the divide have over 300 years of grievances which they are unwilling to let go - a No Deal will be just the excuse they need to dig up their arms and resume hostilities - the younger generation, as you say Ellers, may wish to move on, but there are some serious hardliners left around and it only takes a couple of those morons to get the whole thing started again.
please log in to view this image Francois has become the 20th MP to publicly announce they have sent a letter of no confidence in to Graham Brady. Guido has spoken to half a dozen more MPs who say they have put in a letter but refuse to go public… Steve Baker Peter Bone Ben Bradley Andrew Bridgen Maria Caulfield Simon Clarke Philip Davies Nadine Dorries James Duddridge Mark Francois Adam Holloway Andrea Jenkyns Anne Marie Morris Sheryll Murray Jacob Rees-Mogg Laurence Robertson Lee Rowley Henry Smith Martin Vickers John Whittingdale “She just doesn’t listen.” Read the full text of the extraordinary letter here: Dear Sir Graham, She Just Doesn’t Listen I am writing to ask for a vote of no confidence in Theresa May as Prime Minister and Leader of the Conservative Party. This is something I thought I would never do. Since Chequers, I and other senior members of the ERG, have been attempting to persuade the Prime Minster and senior officials in No.10 Downing Street that there was no way that a deal based on that agreed at Chequers would ever pass through the House of Commons and to pivot instead to a free trade arrangement known as “Super Canada”. I can tell you that we tried repeatedly to get this message across – over a period of some four months – confidentially, respectfully and in private. However, in short, no one really listened to a word we said. The Prime Minister has been surrounded throughout this process by a Pretorian Guard of highly pro-European senior civil servants who, I believe, have never accepted the result of the referendum. Instead they have helped to steer the negotiations in such a way that means, quite simply, we will not in fact leave the European Union but effectively remain within it. This is a betrayal of the decision of 17.4 million British people and the clear instruction that was given to all Members of Parliament by them in the referendum. Now that the details of the deal are available we can see how truly awful it is. Despite the Prime Minister solemnly assuring the House on over twenty occasions since 2016 that we would leave the Customs Union (as clearly stated in our 2017 General Election manifesto), Mrs May now envisages a situation in which we would remain in the Customs Union in perpetuity, only allowed to leave with the consent of the EU. This is utterly contrary to the spirit of Brexit and means our County would surrender control of our national destiny to Brussels. I can never vote for this and neither can many of my colleagues. In addition, we have agreed to maintain “equivalent standards” with the European Union in critical areas of employment policy, environmental policy and social policy, in effect this means we would continue to accept EU law in these areas, except that we could now have absolutely no control over how that law was drafted. This is not taking back control of our laws, it is making us subservient to the laws of others. Moreover, at a time when MPs have seen very difficult decisions taken in their constituencies, including the closing of police stations and being briefed by Headteachers on the extremely tight situations in their school budgets, as part of this deal we are proposing to send £39billion of British taxpayers money to Brussels – for absolutely nothing whatsoever in return. This is hardly taking back control of our money. As I tried to say respectfully to the Prime Minister in the House of Commons yesterday, there is absolutely no way that this deal will pass through the House. The Labour Party are now pledged to vote against it (with perhaps a handful of exceptions); the SNP will vote against it; the Liberal Democrats will vote against it; crucially the Democratic Unionist Party will vote against it and over 80 Conservative MPs are pledged to vote against it as well. As I said yesterday, this makes it “mathematically impossible” for the deal to pass. I pleaded with the Prime Minister to accept the political reality of this situation but still she continues to believe, against all evidence to the contrary, that she will get it through. She is, in short, in complete denial. Like many colleagues, I am also deeply worried that Chequers would treat Northern Ireland differently from the rest of the United Kingdom. Not only is this a betrayal of the Province but it would give succour to our opponents in the SNP and assist them in renewing their calls for the breakup of the United Kingdom. As members of the Conservative and Unionist Party we cannot and must not allow this to happen. In raw political terms there is also the fact that the Prime Minister has appallingly treated and now alienated our strategic allies in the Democratic Unionist Party. We rely on these MPs for a working majority in the House of Commons, given the disastrous General Election of 2017 which she called and in which we lost over 30 valued colleagues. As ever, this was a decision she took with a very small coterie of advisors and without seeking opinion or advice from her experienced colleagues. The DUP can speak for themselves but from what I have seen over the last few days, and given Nigel Dodds’ words in the House yesterday when he said “she just doesn’t listen” it seems to me that not only will the DUP resist Chequers but they have effectively now lost all faith in the Prime Minster. This means that it will be practically impossible for us to continue to rely on them to prop up the Government while the Prime Minister remains in Office. I therefore believe that in order for our Party to survive in Government it is imperative we find a new leader who can command the respect of the DUP and therefore maintain the working majority in Parliament. This is, to coin a phrase, an inconvenient truth but it is there nonetheless. Like almost all MPs, from whichever Party, I came into Parliament to serve my Country. Many years ago I served in the Territorial Army in the Cold War. As far as I am concerned, what I am doing now – and about which I have thought very carefully over a number of months – is defending my country again. Given the number of Cabinet and other Ministerial resignations, I do not believe that it is in any way possible for the Prime Minister to repair the damage which she has done and therefore the Conservative Party needs new leadership if it has any chance of moving forward and rebuilding trust with the electorate. In summary, I believe that Chequers, to which the Prime Minister, is clearly unbreakably wedded, would not constitute Brexit in any shape or form whatsoever and would therefore betray the spirit of the referendum and the decision of 17.4 million British people. I urge my colleagues to consider the likely reaction in their constituencies if their constituents believe that, having voted for us to leave, the politicians have conspired to deny them their decision. At any subsequent election their backlash would be brutal. For the sake of the Conservative Party and indeed for our Country’s destiny, I honestly believe that is now time to seek fresh leadership that can carry this Country forward outside of the European Union and confidently into the world. Yours regretfully, Rt Hon Mark Francois MP
I was talking about some on here. When I mentioned that they were planning to create an army I got a barrage of crap. Yet when it came from the horses mouth it all went silent. But I expect that from some on here.
What a ****. Good to see he saw action as a TA in the Cold War though. Upset for his bigoted pals in the DUP. Last sentence says it all ‘For the sake of the Conservative Party.......’ He’s the type who would have been shot in the back by his own men had he been in a hot war. Less than half way there for a confidence vote, which May will win anyway. Rebels without a clue.
