Article: Best vs Carroll - Goals and Assists | Football, Newcastle

I always imagine Chappaz as this fun-loving guy who secretly hates everyone and everything.

Not really anything to do with the thread but this'll be 6 pages of 'STATS MEAN NOTHING. CARROLL IS BETTER THAN BEST' followed by 'THEY DO AND THAT'S NOT MY POINT' so who cares

 

I'm sorry but you just cant know that, its not a fact.

 

Right chappaz, in case you didn't know (which you obviously don't)

Stats can be swayed in your favour, depending on which stats you use

You are using goal scoring/appearance stats for Best, which is obviously going to make him look good

However, if you use passing stats, key passes, assists, or of pitch covered, minutes played etc

Carroll will win, because Best has never completed 90 minutes, is sh*t at passing and is woeful off the ball

And Carroll, whilst i'm not his biggest fan either, can defend on corners, gives you another dimension also

Stats can look any way you choose to present them, hence rendering them useless really

If a team has 60% possession, 20 corners but only 2 shots on target

Another team has 40% possession, 1 corner and 4 shots on target. Who deserves to win?

See what i'm getting at?

What ever happened to good old fashioned making your own mind up after watching the game?

 

All this points nonsense is what wrecked this for me. Just look at the goals and assists, as soon as you include the points you believe he earned you fill the entire debate with "what if's" then there was no point in finding them. Just measure the goals and assists ratio. For me, Best is a good poacher, his entire goal up front is to score. While Carroll, has more to offer than that, he can set up goals, cause trouble among the oppositions defence and simply force errors by his general height and presence. Best has yet to set up a prem goal, and hasn't got that presence. But Best does have a natural goal scoring ability and the ability to be in the right place at the right time.

For me, Best and Ba will be a deadly partnership given the time and Ba's rise to fitness. They shown signs of that against Fulham. It's time people got over Carroll, who as we can see is doing NOTHING for Liverpool and hates it there. Best is preforming Carroll isn't. That is all.

 

I was one of the people asking for assists and to be fair to you, you went to the effort and dug most of them out, and I can see what your trying to do but these comments sum up my views:

Well put sir.

and this:

 

What is this bullshit? Carroll scored one and assisted another, so without him we'd have scored one and picked up two points less. These stats are completely meaningless at the best of times, without you twisting them to the point where they don't make sense.

 

I think "doing nothing" is slightly overstating Carroll's current predicament, but Best certainly looks the better player right now.

Which brings me to my issue with stats as a means of measuring player ability - all these will ever tell us is how the players have performed in the past, not how they will perform today or in the future. While the stats presented here suggest Carroll has been more productive in terms of goals and assists, they do not really hint at either player's career trajectory. As others have mentioned, the only way to make any kind of informed assessment is to watch the players in question play, but I don't agree that this necessarily puts Best at a massive disadvantage. I've said elsewhere that regular game time may be all Best needs to become a reliable striker (and he certainly improved on his performance against Scunthorpe in the Fulham game), plus Carroll has only really consistently demonstrated his much-celebrated all-round ability in one specific team set-up (namely, the team Hughton built) and has yet to show that he can readily transfer this skill set to other clubs/teams (although from what I've seen of him so far this season, it doesn't look much like he'll be doing that at Liverpool).

 

Totally this!!!!

 

The Stats used are flawed and need relooked at

Carroll's West ham game assist is missing for a start

Also agree with above - "influence" on a goal needs to be quantified somehow too

 

I'm a fun-loving guy who hates stupid people who ruin the world.

For **** sake

I'm trying to compare stats. Of course I don't know that, but we can't know anything about what 'could' have been, can we? So what the hell is the point in even discussing it? I'm just comparing factual points here. The solid stuff we know, without any 'ifs', 'buts' or 'maybes'.

Honestly, if you're going to keep going down that route, just don't even bother posting in this thread, because it's completely against what I'm trying to offer here.

No they can't. Best and Carroll are STRIKERS. Their priority is to score goals. Scoring goals is their primary stat, and getting assists is their secondary stat. The more of those they get, the more they contribute to the team as STRIKERS.

These stats about the STRIKERS scoring goals and getting assists cannot be swayed in any way possible, because they are 100% factual and can't be changed.

Of course I'm using goal scoring/appearance stats because they're the most important stats for a striker! Breaking it down into points scored is there to show how important these goals were.

I don't care about his passing stats, or his key passes, or his pitch covered or minutes played. As I said in the ****ing FIRST POST, this isn't a comparison about who is the better player . This is a comparison of goals and assists. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Did I repeat that enough times for it to sink in?

That's a complete load of ****e. 8 goals in 13 games is 8 goals in 13 games. You can't look any different no matter how you choose to present them. The same goes for the number of point-scoring goals, or assists. They are what they are.

So I make a thread comparing Carroll to Best when it comes to goals, and people whinge that I didn't include the assists. So I include the assists as well, and then people whinge that I include the assists

Could a mod delete this thread please? No point in even bothering. Too many thick ****s who can't comprehend that I'm just trying to offer people goals and assist stats for their own comparison.

 

I think this Is a good article Chappaz! Thank you for finding the stats out and showing people how good best CAN be on his day!

Also on the point of Chappaz I like to think he's the guy who sits in the pub all day that everyone loves and looks up to for advice

 

I still don't get this thread

What are you trying to achieve?

From what i can see, it's an elaborate attempt to prove nothing

As you've already admitted

And no-one seems to care

So again, what's the point of this thread?

 

Why are you still posting in it then? If there's one thing I can't stand on forums, it's people saying they think a thread is pointless and then continuously posting in it saying that it's pointless. We're all entitled to opinions, so if you think it's pointless then fair enough. But for the sake of my own sanity, stop. posting. in. it. every. 5. minutes. saying. that. you. think. it's. pointless.

 

What a pointless post..

 

I dislike you

 

You really are a complete idiot Chappaz, you just cant listen to reason and think your own warped view on things is correct above anyone elses opinions.

Always enjoyed your articles and posts up to now but this one takes the piss, I can see why all the mackems rip the piss out of you now.

 

Meltdown much?

I was clearly replying to him, as he'd highlighted me earlier in the thread

I tried to save chappaz the time and effort of elaborating more (being the gent that i am)

But i will stop posting on this thread, if it's annoying you that much

See, how nice am i?

 

Delightful. You have to say it's slightly ironic though, using a post saying that a thread is pointless to bump said thread. You'd made you opinions clear several times, there was no need post the same sort of thing again and again. It wasn't a reply, just saying the same things. It wasn't adding to the thread in any way shape or form. Surely you'd want it to die, rather than posting on it to bump it up each time?


As (almost) requested, I'm going to lock this thread. It's just turning into a daft argument. I know you wanted it deleted Chappaz but I'll just lock it so at least the stats are still available for those who would like to read them.