The has Vettel thrown it away thread?

Both Hamilton and Vettel are multiple times WDC… You don’t get to that point by being crap and/or mediocre, so we could argue until we’re blue in the face about which is best and get nowhere, but I think it’s unfair to claim that one or the other is only as good as their car. You could say that about just about any driver.

Personally, If I were a team manager, I’d probably take Hamilton over Vettel because I’d know he can get the job done in a scrap maybe more consistently than Vettel. But if you have either of the two in your team, you’re in a pretty good place.

 

I would do the same all though 2 years ago I would have done the opposite as Lewis was the less stable. But that might be because he has a more compliant team mate now so he can be more comfortable and get the job done.

 

By the end of that season the Mclaren was one of the best cars on the grid, how he do in the first half of 2009 when he didn't have the best car?

 

Nah. It was a bucket.

And 4th in Bahrain wasn't too shabby early on...

 

I respect your views too, but honestly, I dont think Hamilton would make those silly mistakes and I really think that if Mercedes were faster than Ferrari throughout, the championship would have been over races ago.

 

Ultimately, I just hate how this season has gone though...Yes I like Hamilton's ability as a driver, but there was hardly any racing this year. I think Red Bull was a disappointment, I really thought it would have been a closer 3-way fight., then Vettel and eventually Ferrari put paid to a close 2-way fight. And finally, the tyres......We have to decide if we want fans to watch racing or watch car drive around as slowly as possible, just fast enough to keep heat in the tyres. Imagine RACING and drivers are asked to drive slowly? What crap.

 

Yeah.. the lack or racing up front is just depressing. And the Indy season is done.... so........ Waaaaaaaaaaah!

 

If I were Hamilton I wouldn't be happy winning a championship and there was hardly any racing...If FI doesn't get its house in order it will lose lots of support. If they want to rope in young viewers, they better act quickly.

 

You do have a point, Vettel is not perfect and he has made mistakes this year, but I still think that these mistakes are because he's pushing a car that is lacking. Would Lewis of made so many mistakes.... Honestly I don't know, but IMO he would of made some of them (e.g. the rain in Germany (1) ), but not others (the unnecessary and clumsy bumps with other drivers). But I also honestly believe he wouldn't of dragged the results out of it as he wouldn't of pushed it as far. I know the reputation he has in Britain of being a hard charger and always getting 100% every lap, but again, I honestly believe that he's never really been tested.

(1) again my own opinion but I believe that some cars suit the wet weather and some cars don't. For whatever reason this seasons Ferrari is a dog in the wet and this season Merc is epic in the wet. As evidenced by Bottas's pace in the wet races.

I do respect that this is a UK board, and most people on here are Hamilton supporters and you obviously think he's the best driver currently on the grid. That's fine, and understandable given the constant positive, and non critical press coverage he gets. To me that's the beauty of F1, we both love the sport and we can dicus the best and worse parts of it.

I 100% agree with your point about this season being a disappointment, I would go to far to say last season too. They both promised so much, but there has been so little on track action, so much fuel saving and so much annoying politics that it's just getting harder and harder to watch and enjoy F1.

 

This is massively off topic, so feel free to delete, or move into another thread. But how can F1 hope to gain new, or casual viewers with next season being 100% on pay TV. Only die hard F1 fans are going to pay to watch F1, you'll get none of the casual viewer flicking through the channels, you'll get none of the fans that are sort of interested as they won't pay, and you won't get young fans if their family isn't a fan and already have paid.

I think it's short sighted to move to pay TV, how is a F1 team going to get sponsorship when the viewing figures are so low? A back of the grid team will only have the share of the cash they get from F1 TV rights, and we all now the smaller teams get a tiny share. I don't see a way that this will work out well for them if there is not change.

 

I wouldn't really say Ferrari is a dog, or else how do you explain Spa? Vettel breezing past hamilton as if he were standing still and Hamilton couldn't get anywhere near? The need to find some way of getting the car closer together in terms of pace...without making it artificial though, or it will just be farce. While it's a championship win against my name, I wouldn't be happy winning knowing there was absolutely no racing. I think the closest to a challenging race win were Bottas and Vettel earlier on and then Hamilton and Kimi a few races ago, but even then Kimi had no tyres left so that wasn't even a fight.

 

I doubt he'll really care that much if he wins it.... We really need a 2010 type season though. Badly.

 

And we need drivers and teams to have to fight from Q1 right through to end of race Sunday, and not this nonsense 'save your tyres for 40 laps' thing that isn't racing. If they want to be so preservative, then go into the food business. You could never really tell how fast the cars are in races if they have to always drive slowly...It is almost laughable to hear drivers in a race asking the team if they want him to pick up the pace....lol

 

Not sure I really get the idea that a bad car is the true "test" for a driver. What did we really learn about Hamilton in the first half of 2009? That he was still quicker than Kovalainen by about the same margin as he was when the car wasn't terrible? Likewise with Alonso the last two seasons.

A real test comes from a tough teammate. In that sense, Lewis is probably the most thoroughly tested champion we've ever had. He earned his position in the quick cars by beating Fernando Alonso in his rookie year after all. I suppose you could also say holding your nerve across a tense title battle is another big test.

I should also add that i am by no means a Hamilton supporter. My criticism of Seb comes from a place of disappointment. Bhaji mentioned 2010. The title battle was great, but what F1 really misses is that Vettel winning was the 5th different WDC in 5 years and they all drove for different teams. I'm desperate for anyone to end this Mercedes run. He's had a decent opportunity to do that and with 4 races to go, he's actually one point further from the championship than he was in 2015 (now there's an inferior car). He's failed a test.

 

The RBR run and the Merc run back-to-back has really hurt the sport. There's not much sign of it really changing either. The gap between the top teams and the bottom teams it more of a gulf than a gap right now. F1 has always been my go to sport, but these days I can take it or leave it tbh. There's just very little to enjoy.

 

Another thing people are missing...They criticise Hamilton saying he head isn't fully into racing because of his off time activities...well he goes modeling and what ever and come race weekend he is totally focused and ready. SI his improved performances and more relaxed racing a spin-off from Mercedes soft-handed approached when it comes to his personal time? McLaren and Ferrari seem to be more rigid with their drivers, but Mercedes let him do his thing and he comes back refreshed.

 

He was on the back foot early in the season so has had to come back from behind Vettel and is now dominating him. There will be a certain satisfaction from that.

He has had to fight for some wins, passing Vettel and Kimi at various races to get the wins, so he has had to roll his sleeves up a bit this year.

 

deleted. fat fingerred double post

 

Problem was, while the Ferrari remained the fastest car it failed to capitalize due to changeable conditions like in Germany where Vettel seeing Hamster coming at him at 2 seconds per lap causing panic and then a huge mistake.

Qualifying in wet conditions on a couple of occasions saw Ferrari not being able to rely on their outright speed and it was left for Vettel to go head to head with LH44 in wet conditions where Vettel came off second best by a huge margin.on a couple of occasions.

Monza we see Lewis taking on the faster Ferrari straight from the GetGo attacking Vettel and passing and then hunting down and executing Kimi some ten laps from the end.

Singapore where Ferrari now with a second sensor installed still should have been on top of Quali as this circuit is not a power track, but once again LH44 comes too the rescue with what was described by DI Resta as a championship winning lap in the pole shootout on a track with slow corners which was made for Vettel and Ferrari.

Vettel has imploded as he knows when with the faster car he has not matched Lewis and this has got inside his head as there can be no excuses and with Ferrari now losing pace due too closer monitoring by the FIA regards their double battery setup. Mercedes is now the clear faster car with a driver who is regarded as one of the fastest ever , what chance does Vettal have in a now slower Ferrari? Vettel has succumb to pressure due to epic driving by one of the greats when Ferrari had that pace advantage.

 

Yes, but I wouldn't want to give my opponents any excuses, especially when their team messed up...like Ferrari did in Q3. I would be much happier battling it out on track, equal machinery, on tyres you don't have to manage all race long....I know, that's asking for a miracle, right?