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The Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Tottenham Hotspur' started by Wandering Yid, Feb 9, 2016.

  1. Assuming those facts are correct then all that does is further evidence Corbyn’s total failure to communicate. Yes, we know he’s Public Enemy No 1 to the Tory media hate dogs, but he’s not helping himself, is he? There are enough ‘pro’ forums and channels that he could use, but he’s slow in responding and hesitant when he finally does.
    It’s a sad fact, but regardless of his consistently long held beliefs and political honesty, the simple fact is that he seems incapable of leading a united party, let alone becoming a credible alternative to a lame duck PM and her bunch of cronies......
     
    #7561
  2. #7562
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  3. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    Here's the thing about political parties: none of them are ever united, as they're all an amalgamation of various factions that are expected to all pull in the same direction as their leader, which is never the case.

    While there's obvious examples of this in the current Tory shambles or the Republicans finding new ways to eat themselves every few years (back in 2012 it was the rise of the Tea Party, now it;s the constant friction between the party and the toddler sitting in the Oval Office on their ticket) the best example of this would be the SNP, because while it would look like they're all united they're anything but as the entire spectrum of Scottish nationalism is expected to co-exist under their banner, from factions wanting devolved powers rubbing shoulders with factions that want full independence, pro-Catholic factions intermingles with pro-Protestant factions, and all manner of policies and outlooks up and down the line and it doesn't take long for fractures to become apparent - and it has to be said they looked a hell of a more united behind Alex Salmond than Nicola Sturgeon.

    That's what the Blairites fail to take into account with their attempts at ousting Corbyn: Labour was never a united party under Blair, as Blair and Brown had their own factions within the party from the outset, and that's before considering MPs who weren't in either faction such as Tony Benn, Dennis Skinner or George Galloway - yet they've always had this image of it being the pinnacle of Labour politics when the truth is Blairism was never united, after all Blair knifed Brown in the back just as Ed Miliband knifed his brother David a few years after Blair had been ushered out of Downing Street, yet these Progress morons keep harping on about how David Miliband should return and lead the party back into the promised land under the reignited flame of Blairism.

    Also, about the pr channels Corbyn could go to: who are they, exactly? The Guardian's been anti-Corbyn from the outset, The Independent published a hatchet job on him two or three weeks ago to undermines any idea they're pro-Corbyn, so in reality the closest there is to a pro-Corbyn paper is the Evening Standard, and that's less pro-Corbyn and more George Osborne settling scores. The real pro-Corbyn press are the online blogs, and by complete coincidence these are the sources the BBC keeps trying to smear as "baked nudes" or whatever that buzzphrase is.
     
    #7563
  4. Wouldn't disagree with much of that, although there are clearly degrees of factionalism within a party which can exist and yet still unite to provide a basis for that party to seek to govern or at least create a credible opposition. It's called compromise for a common good or something similar!

    If that cannot be achieved - and let's face it the current Labour party cannot come up with anything even remotely resembling that credible an entity - then maybe the time has cone for a parting of the ways.... But then all that creates is an even more disparate group of factions that wouldn't even have any formal communication structure.

    The system's completely fecked!! <laugh>
     
    #7564
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  5. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    There's a reason the Vauxhall Labour Party are looking into deselecting Kate Hoey and it's for this exact reason: she voted with the Tories on the Britain bill even though her constituents voted Remain.

    The best part is there's no way to spin it as a Corbynistic purge, as the Vauxhall party backed Liz Kendall and (crucially) Owen Smith instead of Corbyn...so no wonder this isn't being covered.

    No doubt noted Arsenal fan Hoey will claim she's a Spurs fan and it's all anti-Semitic...
     
    #7565
  6. redwhiteandermblue

    redwhiteandermblue Well-Known Member

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    That and that Capone often told the truth. Here's Al Capone on the stock market: "It's a racket. They're crooked."
     
    #7566
  7. deedub93

    deedub93 Well-Known Member

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    It could be worse, try the South African Parliament.

    29 accused of spousal abuse
    7 arrested for fraud
    19 have bounced cheques
    117 have been involved in at least 2 or more bankrupt businesses
    3 have served time for assult
    71 cannot get a credit card because of bad credit ratings
    14 have been arrested on drug related charges
    21 are currently defendants in lawsuits
    84 have been arrested for drink driving in the last year.

    And this is just the tip of the iceberg, usually a bribe in the right place gets you off.

    Our lot look angelic in comparison.
     
    #7567
  8. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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  9. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    In the wake of the Morandi Bridge collapse, Deputy PM (and leader of the Northern League) Matteo Salvini blaming the EU for restricting the budget for road and bridge maintenance before then channeling his inner Katia Hopkinsi by blaming immigrants for...something.

    You can almost tell what's coming next, can't you?

    It didn't take long before it emerged that the Five Star coalition which Salvini is part of not only blocked plans to renovate the bridge, but they even dismissed concerns as a "favoletta" (which literally mean's "fairytale") in a post on their website in 2013 - a post which for some strange reason completely vanished overnight, but is easily recovered by any internet archive search.

    Here's the complete text (via Google Translate, so expect some minor mutilations, as well as the format being hellish)

    The Coordination Committee No Gronda feels the duty to summarize and remember their positions to citizens who in recent weeks have been invested again by a long series of inaccuracies on the theme of the Western Grille and in general on major works that should gravitate on our territory .
    We refer, for example, to the event recently organized by the President of the Region, which gathered around itself the usual powerful with their slogans favorable to the construction of the West Bank, but which, in the face of the absolute absence of support objective data, in our opinion has only served to reiterate once again how distant certain interests are from those of ordinary citizens.
    Compared to the informative void that citizenship is undergoing on the construction of the Western Gronda, we would like to invite the Genoese to be wary of those who in recent times are trying to sell them an elixir called "Gronda", as the panacea of all the troubles of our city.
    It is precisely those who today abuse the word "sustainable progress" to justify large economic and socially unsustainable works, often wavering in an embarrassing lack of critical sense and information, which leads them to accept, disdaining any contradiction, data as they are supplied by the same constructors of the work (as, for example, those on pollution and traffic, in our opinion extremely questionable), diminishing the risk related to the treatment of the large amount of materials that would be moved in the city.
    Another "blindness", the cyclical revival of the downgrade of the A10 (ignoring that, according to the same company Autostrade, the downgrading would undermine the usefulness of the Gronda). We are then told, in turn, the fairy tale of the imminent collapse of the Morandi Bridge, as did the former President of the Province, which clearly shows that he did not read the Final Report of the Public Debate, presented by Autostrade in 2009. In this report we read that the Bridge "... could be on another hundred years" compared to "... an ordinary maintenance with standard costs" (these considerations have also appeared several times on the Bulletin of Engineers of Genoa).
    We therefore ask ourselves what credibility can still have those who support the great works and are preparing to measure the "happy growth" of Genoa in cubic meters of new concrete spills, while our city is reeling between floods and landslides, cohabiting with the permanent risk of counting new deaths. In fact, we do not believe that to date have shown to be able to positively affect the protection of the environment, economic and infrastructure, nor to make significant innovations.
    The results of the idea of "growth" achieved to date are in front of everyone's eyes. We will only remember a few:
    * the 25 years spent to get a right bank road from Polcevera, still without a functional junction to the sea side;
    * the extreme vulnerability of the city, now hostage to the instability, where they continue to issue building permits in places that are not available;
    * the silences with which in the last few years some important industrial companies have been stripped of them;
    * the construction operation of the Erzelli that, in addition to having received the dissent of some excellent voices, in the face of a rain of public money and an unfinished work, can already today incredibly count on one hundred workers in redundancy;
    * the collapse of public transport, which finds its climax with the agony of the integrated ticket, just coinciding with the works for the construction of the railway junction.
    We would also like to express our regret for the positions - in our opinion short-sighted - expressed by some workers' trade unions, in finding these, hoping to collect some crumbs that could fall from the table of great works, forget to loudly claim the immediate responses to which the city and its workers are in absolute need and which would constitute a safe opportunity for revival and work, such as the rehabilitation of the very serious hydrogeological instability in Genoa and the Region, the improvement of public mobility, the safety of watercourses, the redevelopment of many urban and industrial areas abandoned to decay, the restoration of crumbling infrastructures and the energy efficiency of homes.
    In the name of some hypothetical and unsecured job, we find them unfortunately today deployed in the front line in favor of the construction of the eaves that, like any great work, would almost certainly end up in the perverse mechanism of subcontracting and the maximum fall, to the detriment of small but to make money for a few others that, as a sole result, would keep the city blocked for the entire ten-year term of the construction sites with consequent social and health costs.
    We reiterate once again our position: that of realizing the Gronda to solve traffic problems is an obsolete idea with exorbitant costs that, in the end, would flow entirely on the citizens, who would pay the price, indefinitely, through tolls, environmental and social costs, compared to allegedly a minimum benefit in terms of optimization of traffic flows.
    Traffic decongestation could instead be achieved, with costs that are decidedly more contained, improving the receptiveness of the zones from the toll booths to the ordinary road network; creating an alternative viability for trucks and demonstrating, once and for all, the political will to incentivize the use of public transport, investing in public mobility (and not destroying it), in order to convince the citizen to give up using their own cars to move around the city; finally diverting, as much as possible, the goods on iron and creating a distripark outside the city.
    We again strongly reiterate the fact that, in all the bureaucratic process of the project, not even a page has yet been produced on the cost / benefit evaluation of the work by an organization that is not involved in its construction.
    Finally, we take the opportunity to renew our thanks to the President of the Region for having signed the memorandum of understanding on the Gronda with a year of delay, thus granting us a strong legal and procedural weapon to corroborate our appeal to the Tar against the realization of the work.
     
    #7569
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  10. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    This is a genuine picture of him:
    please log in to view this image


    Every. ****ing. Time.
     
    #7570
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  11. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    On the subject of trying to purge anything that looks embarrassing...

    Would now be a bad time to mention that Mohamed Sheikh, the Tory peer that Goldsmith is using Guido Fawkes' blog to run out of the party, happens to be one of the Tory peers who has been vocally demanding an investigation into Islamophobia within the Tory party, with Zac Goldsmith's ill-fated (and highly Islamophobic) campaign to become Mayor of London one of the many aspects he wants looked at instead of swept under the rug?
     
    #7571
  12. Doesn't seem in any way appropriate, but the word that comes to mind is 'Ooops!'
     
    #7572
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  13. deedub93

    deedub93 Well-Known Member

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    It's why politicians and accountants should leave the engineering to the engineers. There are already too many ultracrepidarians trying to run both this country and Europe. Bridge maintenance costs what it costs, the politicians job is to raise the funds and the accountants job to sign the cheques.
     
    #7573
  14. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    That's the other other lie Salvini's trying to get away with: the EU has actually increased the budget allocated to infrastructure repairs, which the Morandi Bridge would obviously fall under, but Salvini wants to hoodwink the public into believing the exact opposite - which of course has nothing to do with him leading an anti-EU party, meaning that what Nigel Farragino is trying to do is blame the EU for his own party's incompetence and belligerence (which they attempted to hide, which really worked out well for them...)
     
    #7574
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  15. The RDBD

    The RDBD Well-Known Member

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    Not completely true.
    Engineers have an ETHICAL DUTY to not get involved with or
    report projects where safety-critical aspects are being
    compromised/ignored to satisfy financial considerations.

    The senior engineers involved on that bridge project had better
    ensure their PII premiums are topped up to the max.
     
    #7575
  16. deedub93

    deedub93 Well-Known Member

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    I better resign my job this afternoon then. Their is no such project where safety critical aspects are not compromised to satisfy financial considerations since the strange animal, known as the management accountant, assisted by his trusty spread sheet was born.
     
    #7576
  17. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    I don't suppose the Mail, Express, Telegraph or Sun will be using the word "entryists" to describe this, will they?
     
    #7577
  18. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    So there's a flood of people joining the Tory Party in order to put an arch-Brexiter in charge and it's being lead by social media?
    Is it just me or does this all sound a bit Corbyn-esque?
    I've always found it rather suspicious that we somehow ended up with an anti-EU Labour leader at the last election.
     
    #7578
  19. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    Not by social media, by Arron Banks, who's behind Leave(Dot)EU - in other words the flow chart's once again taken us back to Putin.
     
    #7579
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