Absolute tosh as far as I'm concerned - * Keane hangs players out to dry in the media. You don't do that. They stop playing for you as soon as you do this. I'd love to know what Mick REALLY thinks but he does right keeping it internal. * Keane blamed GEOGRAPHY on us not being able to sign players. For heavens sakes man. * Keane WAS well backed throughout his time with us and given a lot of ££££ to spend. He wasted it. * Keane decided getting rid of Mr Klug was a good idea. I mean, REALLY? Keane even admitted in his book that he wasn't sure why he was managing a side in blue!? If you read Jimmy Bullard's book - after one game Keane got all the players around for a tactic chat. So he was writing things on the board as you do.... Infact found it here for you all - https://www.balls.ie/football/bulla...y-stories-from-roy-keanes-ipswich-days-123021 You CANNOT run a club like this. The guy is an absolute bloody melt.
Interesting article, doesn’t surprise me one bit! How the hell did he think that would have a positive effect?
The thing about this is the fans are the most important part of the club and unfortunately it seem neither ME or Mick get that but that is why we need a change of manager because it's clear the majority of fans want a change and why wouldn't they after 5 years of boring football with no intent to take the came to the opposition, why would you want to go to matches spending your hard earned cash, football is meant to be enjoyable and I can't think of one game I've enjoyed under Mick. Yes he's done well on many levels, he's done exceptionally well in the transfer market and to be fair points wise given our circumstances I'm not sure we can expect much better however I want to enjoy following Ipswich, I accept there will be ups and downs and that's fine but I'd like to watch us and feel something other than boredom and disillusion even if it is despair, we have just stagnated and considering the young players we have at our disposal we should be excited about going to games. If I was a stats man and wasn't bothered about actually watching the games or listening to them I'd be happy for Mick to stay but that's not why I followed football. I don't buy the argument that we need wholesale changes in the summer, if we appoint the right manager with the right philosophy I think we have a half decent squad with some very good youngster yes it's a risk to the solidarity of Mick but after 5 years of boredom now is time to twist as I can't take anymore of that brand of football and not actually enjoying the team I support. As for the Keane debate, he may well have got us to the PL eventually if Marcus would've bankrolled us but so would have Mick. Keane is by far the worst thing in my memory that has happened to the town, not only did he not do a good job, he destroyed our traditions as a football club. Mick and Keane both play crap football but at least Mick has some success playing that way
Okay on the flip side - but IS football meant to be enjoyable? Ask yourself that carefully - it's not a pop it's a question. The Ac Milan side ( try not to laugh here ) in the mid 90s played horrific stuff technically but it worked. Very good at the back / win the 50/50s bully sides. As far as I know, any style of play is allowed and helps you towards you goal of a win. Now don't get me wrong - I like the ball played on the deck. When I'm playing, I try to pick out a pass / make an angle / keep the ball / move and ONLY hoof the ball as a last case scenario. I'd rather the results were good and the football was enjoyable. I agree with you and others / it's not been a lot of fun watching the ' style of play ' etc etc for a lot of the past five years or so. However, it's not snowboarding where you get points for style or rugby when you get an extra point for a few tries. It's not diving ie Tom Daly. Surely the MAIN aim of the game - is to win it no matter how you play it? That has to be the primary function - like any game in life. Be it - and if people think I'm being trivial / or have a different viewpoint hey that's fine - it's a forum! Football is surely ... along the same lines as any game we play - be it Monopoly or whatever. You play to win. Now I'm not saying if Mick leaves boo hoo the end of ITFC - and part of me does think either way whatever with this summer. A good part of me would like a new gafa now - he's been here 5 years - which is a long time in football. I was 99% sure Mick would leave in the summer, now I'm not so sure. If Mick does leave, for sure I'd like a new younger manager to give the style of play a go. It'll be a lot more fun on here for us all to digest - and be interesting with the new gafa peoples thoughts on him! May have a Spanish with Keane or a myself with Mick. It'd just be a different forum...... Do we think the game with Hull will be on? Be a shame if it was PP but have a feeling it will
That is such a depressing response, if I thought like that I wouldn't follow Ipswich or football or if I did I'd probably support Man U. I don't understand why people would follow football if it's not entertaining, it's why they allow fans to watch the games. Also surely you want to coach your players to be the best they can be. Why do we coach our youngsters to play football to be technically competent on the ball, there must be a reason why we do this, it can't be just so they can play attractive football, ask yourself why academies coach their players like this? You don't just play monopoly to win surely, you'd want to win but you play because it's a form of entertainment between friends or family. I really don't get your argument. I know you're quite a staunch defender of Mick and the only time I've seen you waiver on that support this season is when you've been to a match which i think is quite telling. And at the end of the day a football club is for the fans and Micks style of football is driving people away in droves. So in my mind it's not about winning it's about the fans.
You also contradict yourself, Westy,by saying you try to play the game well,but the most important thing is to win.Why,in that case,don't you adopt route one?Dare I say it, it's because you play ,primarily,to enjoy yourself?
In my opinion, it ultimately boils down to what you want from your football club. Do you want to be entertained or do you want to see results and success? Obviously for all of us, we'd like to see both, but that's a best case scenario that maybe three or four clubs, at most, will achieve in this division, in any given season. I'm not meaning to presume anybody's age, and I may have this completely wrong, but I think generally older football fans like to be entertained and younger football fans want to see success. Likewise, season ticket holders or regular viewers of the matches generally prefer to be entertained, while fans who do not, or are unable to go often, arguably prefer the result. The game has become more commercialised, for better or worse, over the past three decades and success, and the identity of being a supporter of a successful team carries more weight these days. My own viewpoint is that, as a supporter going to matches, I prefer a win over the style of play. I obviously would like to see good football, but when it comes to watching the team you support, I think you have to ask your question that from memory, do you prefer it when Ipswich win, but play poorly, to when we lose, but deserve the win? (Might take a bit of thinking from years gone for some of us!) Evidently the best thing you can celebrate at a match is a goal, and I really don't mind how we score them, as long as we score them and avoid conceding them. Does the owner, manager, and players at a football prefer the result or the performance? I'd say 95% of them would take the result every time, "the mark of champions etc" for when a team sneaks a win against the run of play. Do we remember the good stuff we sometimes played under Jewell and Magilton, or do we remember the more regular defeats and sense of underachievement? I know for me it's the latter every time. In the case of McCarthy, he used to get the results, but often not the performance, but we didn't care as we were in and around the play offs. Arguably we still are competing for the top six, at time of writing, but realistically, we have too many points to make up on a very good top six / seven. The "results over entertainment" philosophy is not sustainable if you're not achieving anything, particularly from the same manager who has been in the job for five years and a bit and looks intent on burning his bridges with supporters. If the results dry up and if the style of play remains cynical / direct, then patience will inevitably snap and a change will be desired. Because both preferences aren't being met, the results supporters aren't seeing enough of them and the entertainments supporters have almost, or have completely given up. That is effectively where we are at, certainly off the back of last season, which was one of the worst in recent memory. Regarding the gaming analogy, when I play Monopoly, I want to be entertained and winning is a bonus. When I watch a film, I want to enjoy it and if my favourite actor / actress has a good performance in it, that's a bonus on some level. When I watch a game of football as a neutral, I want to be entertained and see goals. When I watch Ipswich Town, I want to see us win and I want Norwich to lose. Every time.
Yes, when you watch as a neutral - clearly you want to watch the best stuff on offer. When you watch your team, surely the first thing that matters is the result. I mean when you go to work the next day, lets say a Forest fan says ' how did Ipswich get on last night mate ? ' .... ' lost 2-0 ' is the conversation. It's not ' we lost 2-0 but played nice tidy stuff looked really good '............ ' you lost 2-0 mate........... ' It's definitely for me results first. As a player, as I said I try to play as much as I can. I play CM - holding. I'm crap at the physical stuff. However, you have to look at your team and who you're playing against. If we're playing a good side full of technical players, if we match up they'll pull our pants down. If however we have better technical players, then we can do a lot more ourselves. That is one surprise I do have with Mick as a manager and a massive limitation. Sure, he's tied this season with injuries - we have Bish / Dozzell / Huws and McGoldrick out from here until the end. However, for some games surely we have far better players than the opposition....!?!? I guess he just does same system home / away / 46 times a season so at least players 100% know their role to the team which has it's perks. Also clearly has major limitations. I agree - Mick has got quite a lot wrong and the style of play makes me wonder. I mean - I'd quite fancy next game us trying - Bart Spence / Vickers / Chambers / Knudsen Carayol / Skuse / Connolly / Celina Garner / Waghorn However, not sure we're strong enough in CM to do that. Anyway, that's all of our viewpoint which is cool. It would be fantastic to go to a game with you all in person / pub / something like this. I find forums hard as any word can be taken the wrong way / hard to explain what you're getting at. Had a right laugh with FieldMarshall in person - top bloke. Have to say though, I'm very much at the point if Mick does go this summer - I'd also to a point welcome the change also. No doubt I'd also like you guys aesthetically MUCH prefer the football on offer too. I just have it in mind - maybe wrongly - that Evans is a major issue in terms of spend. He released major funds to three absolute melts before Mick. Mick's not had a chance. Will the next guy get a good chance !?
It is about results and results come from good players, ie defenders who can keep a clean sheet, midfielders who can break up attacks and get us moving up the field, and of course strikers who can put the ball in the net from the chances made for them, good players get you good results. Going back many years Leeds bored the pants off a lot of people but they won almost everything, they had good front men in Jones, Clarke, and Gray, and top class defenders also, Revies tactics were boring to watch unless you were a Leeds fan and as such Elland Road was sold out almost every match. If we could put together a top end Championship side that won regularly and was at the top of the table the fans would return, people like to pay to see winners not losers. If Sunderland go down and are challenging for promotion next season just watch their crowds increase, the fact that its 3rd tier football wont matter a damn. Results every time.
I think we're all on a slightly different page of the same book. I'm sure none of us are saying we'd like us to win without any entertainment factor and on the converse none of us are saying we'd like to watch entertaining football if it meant we lost every match. I'd just like to see us actually set out to try and win a game, show some intent and have players who are coached and can pass the ball to each other. I want to go to match and actually enjoy it, not wonder why I'm there. For the first 15 years I did but since Evans has been at the club it's felt more like a chore than a hobby. And the problem is the way we play isn't going to attract new fans because it isn't enjoyable to go to a match and that also doesn't create a good atmosphere because it's rarely edge of the seat stuff. I think this article on twtd pretty much sums up how I feel about the club: https://www.twtd.co.uk/blogs/21705/this-might-rub-you-up-the-wrong-way-it-might-not!
Personally,I go to Portman Road to enjoy a game of football not to brag to my mates about the result afterwards,but,hey, we're all different
Don't go to many games. Used to view them as a rare "treat". Next available game to me is Birmingham, I'm 50/50 whether or not it'll be worth my time. Many on here were thinking the same of the Derby, which I think is telling. Westy, you must have some short conversations on Monday morning's, how we played always comes into it. The fact as fans we are (mostly) unable to mitigate losses with performance or league position is why Mick's losing fans by the day.
Well it'll always come back to the same point mate if we've lost! Forest fan ' yeah but you lost 2-0 mate..... ' ahhh but Bishop did some one twos / McGoldrick made space / I donno Kieran Dyer had a worldy down the wing... '.. ' You lost 2-0........ ' ' Ah but you didn't see the movement. Superb football we had a go.... ' ' You lost 2-0 .... ' Come on we've all had conversations like this ? ! surely !? The year with Magilton, 07/08 when we won what was it - our first 11 / 12 home games ... and couldn't win on the road until January I used to get to work and be asked ' were you home or away mate ? ' when on the run and I'd say - people would guess won the game or didn't win! Even under Jewell we played some class stuff at times - with a majorly soft underbelly. I mean the West Ham 5-1 scoreline makes you wonder. By far my favourite time going to games as a town fan was 04/05. First season I started going to away days quite regularly. The Reading 1-1 A day Jan 2015 is the most to this day complete town performance I've ever seen. We absolutely battered them, hit the frame of the goal twice from memory, went 1-0 up in stoppage time yet drew. Sheff Utd 2-0 away win around then incredible - I remember Kuqi running the length of the pitch AFTER the whistle and doing his swallow dive right infront of the Sheff Utd kop. He was absolutely magnificent that day, kicked left right and centre - yet scored and absolutely BULLIED them all game. THAT Darren Currie miss at Elland Road 04/05 I will remember until the day I die. Hurt so much. My favourite season to attend games by an absolute mile. We were such a joy to watch, fantastic movement. Couldn't defend though, christ alive. Shambles at the back !!!! That being said, I fully get Mick's logic to the way he plays the game with the budget he's given here. Be interesting to see what does happen post Mick. Seems such a long time ago.
So your favourite season was 04/05, I'm assuming you missed the Burley era? If so your favourite season was probably our most successful you've seen but also the most entertaining .... the debate goes on Under Royle though I wouldn't say we played as good a football as we did under Burley or even Magilton at the beginning, we played direct football and then played alot of our best stuff off the second ball. But it was entertaining and we took the game to the opposition. And to be fair to Royle that team was put together on a budget and id actually say in comparison our team could well be better now bar Darren Bent, we had characters though. His last season was pretty poor and it felt like the right time for him to go. It felt very similar to our season last year but we've had to put up with 2 of those now. Perhaps it's because when I really first started watching the town but I really see the Burley days as a golden era and my favourite seasons, even the year we got relegated from the PL we beat Inter Milan, it felt like a dream and had to remind myself it did actually happen after watching Ipswich draw against bottom of the league Burton and be outplayed by them recently!! Even though I didn't like it, I used to get how Mick played because he recruited a team of pretty average workhorses and they looked good at it, the problem is now the way he sets his teams up doesn't match his recruitment policy, the players he has at his disposal or Marcus Evans 5 point plan. Mick has put together a half decent young team who should be able to play good football and take the game to the opposition.
I think what the debate is coming down to is that we want to a manager who is not scared to attack the weaker sides and to play a more attacking, positive style of football at home, but to also remain pragmatic and aim to get a result against tougher sides and tricky away fixtures. Whether we play an attractive, on-the-ground style of football or a more direct approach, as long it produces goals and victories, there won't be many complaints.
Excellent, honest, level-headed, friendly debate...just wish I had Westy three-shoes in my team as a young manager! For this old boy to drive 300 miles round trip, - in good or not so good health - it's gotta be spirited, entertaining,skillful, ball-passing game with passion, energy, some humour and stuff that rouses the fans to yell for their club, and clap them off at the end for trying. And the great banter from familiar fans who always ask me..." What the f...k mate, you driven all way up from South coast to watch this stuff?!" We do have the youngsters, surprising talent here at ITFC (when all fit to go), it's just time for change, new managerial approach, and new sunnier sporting breezes that bring back the smiles up on the East Coast.
Oh I'd say the stuff under Royle of 04-05 was MILES ahead of anything under Jim - that's not a pop at Jim ps - the stuff Royle served up was just ridicuously entertaining to watch. We had a great side, would go away from homes and absolutely BATTER sides. We murdered them. Never once saw a game under Jim remotely on a level with this. Missed the Burley era sadly - saw bits of tv though! I do miss us not having a go - but I suppose I get the approach given our spend vs what I think would happen more often than not away at sides with far better spend. May be all coming to an end any way.
