The chavs are not a bad side. At this stage, we need points more than possession and passing. I doubt the chav fans are saying “ that was a really enjoyable match. We outpassed and outpossessed United. We had more shots too. It doesn’t matter we lost...”
I meant at least Jose's defensive tactics got the win today, unlike recent games against Tottenham, Newcastle and Sevilla. I don't know about ahead of City, but under Keano we would certainly have more urgency and take the game to every team, especially City at OT rather than rolling over and letting them tickle our tummy - that alone would have produced a 6 point swing in our favour.
I guess under Ferguson I got used to the full package at United - an attempt at positive football and results. I don't understand the wilful acceptance of less these days.
Not really a wilful acceptance. Not that any ranting here will make any difference . Except makes us all feel better. If you ask me whether I would prefer the Ferguson style to what’s being served now, definitely the former. Would I like a more attacking formation? Sure. But the reality is that we employed JM knowing full well that he was going to be like this. He just cannot be both entertaining and winning. Do we want him to change style if that means losing more matches? It is like I said earlier buying a coupe and complaining that it cannot carry the wardrobe. Just like I hate that he is trying to convert Pogba into a central midfielder with defensive qualities. Wtf? If true Why spend £90m on the most expensive player and try to change him? The reality is if he delivers the title (s) and the style is still bad we will reach a point when there will be parting of the ways. As long as he delivers cl and challenge for the title (which he hasn’t this season) the club will keep him.
Man Utd have a long history that dates back to the 50s of being the glamour club in England, a team who win in style. This is part of the reason the RS became so bitter towards us. So whilst I can just about tolerate Mourinho's ****e football when we are winning for the short term, he is not the man I want to see in charge of us in the long run.
He is but a short window in the long history of the club. He is not a permanent fixture nor will he even approach the longevity of Ferguson. Longevity without genius = stagnation and decline ala Wenger. He has been brought for one purpose only and for a few years. After that he'll move on to new pastures.
On the match itself, Lukaku MOTM by a long way. He has been labelled a flat track bully. No problem with that as that's what we needed one after a record number of draws at home against the minnows. Even with Zlatan. But yesterday against a good side in the Chavs he produced the goods. The abiding image is that powerful run from near our penalty area, pursued by three Chelsea players. He was eventually tackled but that symbolised his power and speed. Chelsea played in the first half as well as I've seen them this season. Possibly we let them but both Hazard and Willian were on top form and it will have been silly to let them play their normal game. We may not have the best 11 but we possibly have the one of the best squads in the prem (not the best in the world as I previously said tongue in cheek, that RS thought I was being serious!) . Whilst Hazard was being subbed for Pedro just decreasing their attacking potency , we introduced Lingard who always presents a threat. For me, we haven't got the best position for Sanchez and he has not settled in yet. JM has decided that Martial is a better starter than Rashford. I think he is right. Rashford may be as quick but his decision making is not as good and his scoring touch seems to have deserted him. McTominay seems to be a good replacement for Herrera as he did a reasonable job tracking Hazard. All and all a good result aginst a very good team. To be honest the chavs could feel a draw would have been fair but it is their fault as they seemed to settle for a draw just as United pushed for that win.
What's with your die-hard messages about Keane? You're writing that with your heart and not your head. There is absolutely zero proof to back your statements on why Keane equates to success. I personally wouldn't be against great ex-players becoming the manager - but let's not kick ahead of ourselves by speaking in absolute terms as though that brings some guaranteed joy. It is always a 'try n see' with unproven managers and Keane is as unproven as they come.
I agree with you on Rashford. I think someone mentioned in another thread that we shouldn't have bought Lukaku because we already had Rashford. That is a ridiculous statement. Rashford for all his guile, he still lacks the ability to make right decisions when under pressure. He certainly does have the talent but needs keep working hard and coached right. You rarely get finished article at the age of 20. As for Martial; Tony is heads and shoulders above Rashford, in my opinion. He sees the game very differently to Rashford and that allows him to make better decisions even when he's not scoring. Which brings me to Sanchez... I still can't believe how much we pay that man. It's ridiculous. But I do hope that he comes through. For the performance - it has to be said that Sanchez was heart and soul at Arsenal. But at United, he is just another player and you see that in his body language. We have way too many match winners and star players for this team to be underperforming against top sides. We should absolutely be going into games knowing that we are absolutely playing to win. Not to sit around and defend like a league one side. Mourinho needs to grow a pair and ensure that the players are playing with the right resolve that they are better than the opposition. He does that when there's nothing at stake as we have seen numerous times this season. But then mentally shrinks the players against top sides. That must surely stop.
Aye that has two parts - the club who win and the club who play with style. Whilst we had both of those under SAF, under Moyes and LVG we lost both. The simple fact is that it was more important to become the club who wins again rather than the club who plays in style but wins nothing. Just look at Spurs, Liverpool and Arsenal - they all play with some style but win nothing and thus are largely now in the second tier of clubs, not able to genuinely aspire to win major trophies with any degree of regularity. For all his faults, Mourinho has helped us get back to winning ways, and whilst he's not the long term solution he will stop us ending up like Liverpool or Spurs, winning nothing for years whilst bleating about passing and style.
Can't say I agree with that statement at all. How are we supposed to know whether he would kick on and become the centre forward he has the potential to be without giving him the position and the games he needs to hit form? You can't. Currently he's getting half an hour here and there and then being criticised for his form, whereas the £80 million man is allowed to be completely hit and miss! I've got no issue with Lukaku though, he's clearly going to be some player and in his first season it's understandable to be a bit hot and cold. I do have the issue with Sanchez though and it's not hindsight, I was very much meh on his signing from the word go. I could take or leave him. We should have signed a right sided attacker and gone all out for Mahrez instead, who would have jumped at the chance. All that Sanchez being in the team is doing is confusing the issue as he wants to play in positions two players who are worthy of their place anyway (Martial and Lingard) play. I can sadly see Martial leaving as a result of it.
Almost everything I say about Keane is evidence based. Like saying we'd play with more urgency and take the game to every opponent, that is entirely evidenced. If you read Keane's book 'The Second Half' it's apparent his mindset is to believe in your own strengths and go at opponents. He says setting up foremost to not get beat is like waving the white flag and he couldn't do that. Even when he brought his Sunderland side to OT in 2007 he refused to accept his team as underdogs and setup to attack United. That didn't work out as a Ronaldo inspired United outclassed Sunderland to win 4-0 but it shows the mindset of the man. His approach is of a winner, a natural alpha, and that style suits world class attackers and a club like United down to the ground. Even when at United, there's a story that when Rio came to the club Keano gave him a rollicking in training for playing a square pass instead of looking to do something positive with the ball. As Rio said, "I saw that day why United were winners and why Roy was at the heart of it." I think his time at Ireland under O'Neil, where their shortage of quality compared to the big European teams has forced Keane to temper his nature somewhat, but that brings me to the intensity. He's often spoken about the need for desire, determination, grit, to run until they drop and give 110%. If you ever watch Ireland, for all their lack of talent, the players clearly respond to Keane's message - their heart and workrate is second to none. So you can see, when I say Keane would have gone at City at OT with urgency in our play, that is supported by the evidence.
I wouldn't disagree with you on that. But he knows the strength of his team (or a perception of that strength). He (it seems) calculates the risks of draws and defeats in the context of the competition. If he were behind Chelsea in the league I'd like to think that he would have put a more attacking side and go for that win. because the rewards for winning would have been more than the risk of defeat. Same as Sevilla. He's worked out that being a two legged KO tie a draw is good enough to take back to OT even though a more adventurous side would have given us a win. But we'll only know whether he was right after the return leg. Win v/s Style. It is interesting that for most fans, wins DO affect perception of style. That last match at OT would have been viewed differently by all (fans and media alike) if that match had finished 2-2. A 2-1 focusses the attention on a better half for United. And more stylish attacking game, which fans were happy with. A 2-2 draw would have led to to JM being seen as over cautious. Wins change perception. Yes, even perception of style. Did JM ever get criticised by the chav fans for being too cautious when he was winning titles? Did we as rival afns think he was too cautious? At the end of the day wins trumps style any time. Great to have both but given the choice, it is a no brainer.
@Christiansmith That's true - like the game against Arsenal. I thought we were awful, very defensive, saved by De Gea, we only had possession of the ball for 20 minutes in the whole game, it was a terrible watch. But we won 3-1 and some fans were talking about it as performance of the season!
It is fair to say that under SAF there was a gulf in class between two or three top teams and the rest of the PL. In the few short years since he retired that gulf has been closed as a result of the money coming into all levels of the game and it is more a case of the other teams have improved rather than we have gone backwards (apart from Moyes and LVG). In years gone by it was more important to win the games against 'run of the mill' sides, which we did with ease and often with considerable flair. Those 'routine' victories made the results against the other title challengers seem less relevant than they do today and our sometimes turgid performances against other top teams back in the day were easier to overlook in the course of a season Towards the end of his time, SAF saw it coming and he knew that the money coming into the game, not just in the UK, but throughout Europe, would make it harder and harder to secure the top talent without throwing bucket loads of money at the problem and, for him I believe, that was a big issue given that it was in his and the club's nature to develop young talent rather than buy it (remember how everyone used to ridicule European clubs for buying top players from the UK) yet now everyone is doing the same. The problem is not that we are not playing as well as in times gone by but it is more the case that our opposition across the board, domestically and in Europe have improved beyond measure. Should we have kept our edge, should we have kept ahead of the rest - yes. Did our progress stall unnecessarily under Moyes and LVG - yes. But are we playing badly with the resources we have - that is a different matter.
Errrr, no it wasn't. It was an open attacking game, very entertaining. So what about possession? Who gives a **** when you win three one? The massive difference that day is we employed a counter attacking strategy, rather than simply a defensive, negative one. The two things are completely different.
