I don't know where now, but I did hear about it. No doubt it will be said that this is temporary, with powers returning at some unspecified date in the future.
You have remarkable faith in the UK government then - a government that lies to and cheats its own people.
To remind you that the the sun never set on the British Empire because god doesn't trust the English in the dark.
I think I am on your side BB. It is another problem, so like the NI border just kick it down the road. This afternoon the EU will publish on their website the agreed position of 27 individual countries on the transition requirements. Today the UK will be having a cabinet meeting to try and work out an agreed position for just the UK. Seems as if one has put the work in and is pleased to keep the population informed, while the other wants to keep secret just how divided they all are. I am sure democracy comes into this somewhere.
"The EU position is very clear: the transition will last for 21 months until the 31st of December 2020. The whole EU acquis will continue to apply to the UK, as well as the jurisdiction of the EU Court of Justice". @MichelBarnier #Brexit David Davis didn't sound when giving evidence to the Lords, that he would object too much to it.
It seems that the power grab is simply a means to get round a constitutional problem. The matter was raised in the commons today by a Welsh MP and the government minister really didn't have an answer.
Shock, horror - leaving the EU will leave us economically worse off - who'd have thought that eh? I have come to the conclusion that most people who voted Leave did so despite any economic consequences - a few perhaps will really have thought it would be a brighter dawn but it seems to me most who voted leave did so for a variety of non economic reasons. You have to say "fair enough" to them. People who believe in issues such as the environment also know that they will not increase our economic benefit - but they see other positives. Not everybody would vote purely on economics.
I agree that people voted for many reasons Leo. Some voted purely in protest. There was also a distinctly left wing Brexit, although this applies only to a minority. The Michael Foot manifesto also had Brexit as one of its aims in 1983, seeing the EU. as a neo liberal organization in which socialism is more, or less, illegal. In the meantime we have seen our taxes used to save banks but not people, the way privatizations have been forced on the Greeks, and the way the Catalan independence issue was demonized throughout the EU. in unanimous solidarity with Spain and a corrupt constitution signed just after Franco. Truly a future Corbyn manifesto which includes nationalizations would be difficult within the context of the EU.
I am coming to the conclusion that the Conservatives running the Brexit negotiations do not want to leave the EU at all and they will, by small steps, wreck the entire process so we remain inside the EU by default, thus becoming electable. Leaving the new Marxists and the LibDems to pick up the pieces and deal with an overly aggressive, vindictive and out-to-punish the UK for daring to even hold a referendum EU.
And where are the new Marxists Zen Do you hear anyone talking about the impending dictatorship of the proletariat ? And even if there were such a thing as a Marxist movement in Britain they would be in the vanguard of Brexit. Or are you referring to Corbyn ? In which case it approaches McCarthyist paranoia.
Is nobody else bored with brexit? If I could wave Merlin's wand I would undo the referendum result and we would stay in the EU. That though is not going to happen. So 90% probably of us believe it will not make us economically better off but people voted to leave despite dire warnings from experts. So it is over - it is gone - we lost. What is important now is to work out how Britain can best find a relationship with both the EU and with other countries. Trying to get back what we voluntarily gave up is never going to happen. We need to look at the whole world ad strike deals with both the EU and other countries that give us as bright a picture as we can possibly have. Where is the plan - from any political party that says what that would be?
I'm not sure that the opposition parties are obliged to come up with a post Brexit plan Leo. Although the Labour Party was nearly as much at fault for the referendum result as the Tories were they cannot make concrete plans for a scenario which is, as yet, unknown. By the time Britain actually leaves (if it does) the electorate will have changed and it would be undemocratic to leave when the majority may be against it. I agree that something pretty spectacular would have to happen this year to force a second referendum, but it is still possible. Having said that, a 52%-48% result in the other direction would answer nothing, and would not convince the EU. that our remaining would be a stable thing. The most likely scenario is that we leave, and that we then elect a government which is in favour of rejoining at a later stage. But you are right - most of us are bored with the subject.
Who suggested they are obliged to come up with just a "post brexit" plan? I would expect every political party that has a desire to form a government to have a plan for that government. There could be an election next month - do you believe the opposition parties should wait until one is called before deciding on their policies for the future? That is not how democracy works - each party continually sets out where it wants to take the country. The "fault" for the referendum result if there were such a thing would lie with the people who voted for it. (Others would argue they should take the credit). If you believe in a democracy then you have to accept the result it delivers. The people were given a choice and for the likes of you and me the result was disappointing - but 17.4 million people voted for it and trying to blame a person or a party is false. How can it be undemocratic to leave when a referendum was held to decide to do just that. You cannot decide major policies on a day to day basis. We voted to leave - shame but that is what happened. The only positive thing to do is accept the result and then have a plan for the direction the UK should now take - and every party should make their plan clear.
We most certainly can blame a party Leo. It was Cameron who called an unnecessary referendum, where no other party wanted it (apart from Ukip). It is regretable that all other parties now have to make plans for how they would get us out of the mess that the Tories have landed us in - but I suppose they will have to do so. Our understanding of democracy is different Leo - it is an ongoing, developing thing which allows the people to change their minds if necessary. Every judge in the UK. can ask the jury to go back and reconsider their decision - is this undemocratic ?
I keep seeing that people had a democratic choice which they did, and the government decided to act on it. It is actually what is happening since that should be of concern to the population, but far too many in my opinion say just get on with it, we cannot be bothered. Listening to the debate in the House of Lords this afternoon, peers from all sides of the house, Tory, Labour, Liberal and crossbencher were saying the same thing. The executive have made a power grab, trying to remove the ability at every turn of the MPs from being fully involved. The legislation being discussed is a clear way of sidelining the Parliament, where we as individuals place our trust to guard our democracy. There have been some very intelligent speeches highlighting the problems, but the overriding tone has been one that this bill must be changed to stop the government stealing our democratic rights exercised by our Parliament.
Afraid that is false logic. Cameron said before the 2015 election that if elected he would hold a referendum - and he was voted in. I remember our friend Norwayhornet voting for him in order to get a referendum - even though he believed he would renege on the promise. You may have not liked his promise or his party's stance but rightly or wrongly they understood that the EU was an issue that many people had strong views on. The Tories were the only party to offer to hold one - and they were elected to do so. That is democracy as was the referendum itself. We may not like what democracy gives us sometimes but that is life. You imply the Tories are /were more pro Brexit than other parties but that too is false. If I were trying to lay blame - which I am not - I would say the failure of Corbyn to campaign properly against brexit was the deciding factor. Our understanding of democracy may be different Col but mine is based on having elections at set times and when you have a referendum to decide an issue then you abide by it. Just because we do not like the result does not mean we can overturn it. When a party is elected to govern - do we have another election a year down the line when they trail in the polls and lose seats in by-elections and so forth. No. People can change their minds if they want to - at the next General election. In fact if brexit were so unpopular then the LibDems who oppose it would have been expected as the only party to do so to have done better in 2107. That was the chance to undo the referendum.
