1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

Match Day Thread Liverpool v Manchester United

Discussion in 'Manchester United' started by Matth_2014, Oct 1, 2017.

  1. Christiansmith

    Christiansmith Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2011
    Messages:
    9,727
    Likes Received:
    1,558
    More fool me for hoping and believing that JM would put an attacking side against such an uninspiring RS team and let his team perform.

    JM clearly worked the odds. He has calculated that losing would be more damaging than a bore draw. If he went Gung-ho and lost, there could have been a significant impact. The press and pundits would have been all over him " we told you so. His team only got the points against very poor ones and at the first real hurdle he got defeated. La la la..."

    He had reasonable excuses. Pogba and Fellaini and Bailly, three of his key players were missing, And so was Lukaku. To be fair, Lukaku was never going to be a Messi . He was bought to score the goals when we are well on top. That is being the flat track bully we needed to convert the chances we missed last season. If he carries on scoring the goals against the bottom teams home and away then he would have carried out his side of the bargain. Zlatan coming back to fitness is great news.

    So far my perception is that JM is going for wins against all non top 6 sides home and away. For top 6 sides, away he will put out a side not to lose and hope to sneak a win. But at old Trafford, against these teams he will go for the 3 points. That strategy may well work but unless City slows down it will only get him a 2nd place at best.

    Plus point this weekend was of course Degea who proved yet again the world class player he is. Again we found that Pogba is our best midfield player and for all the criticism JM gets about him being overvalued he gives the team an attacking threat that is currently missing especially against the better sides. Cannot wait for him to get back.
     
    #101
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2017
  2. King Shergar

    King Shergar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2011
    Messages:
    9,051
    Likes Received:
    1,016
    To be fair to Lukaku he was feeding off scraps all game, and apart from that one chance he had nothing to go at.

    It was more the respect Mourinho gave Liverpool that frustrated me. I could almost forgive playing like that away at the Etihad, but Liverpool man for man are knowhere near one of the top sides in the league. They are barely a top 6 side, and I wouldn't be suprised to see them finishing more mid table this season. Only player they had on the pitch that would actually get in our team is probably Coutinho, but other than that the rest are bang average.

    Injurys are no excuse, Liverpool where also missing Mane, who had been their best player this year.

    You can't rely on winning every game against non top 6 sides, as there are going to be slip ups, like in the Stoke game.

    I think the best way to play the odds as you put it, is go for the 3 points in every game. That was the SAF way, and it always served us well. The away fixture at the Etihad is maybe the only exception where I could forgive a park the bus performance. But the rest of the teams in the division we are stronger than man for man, so we should be approaching these games like we are the superior side. We approached that game on Saturday like we where a team bottom of the table, who's players where completely inferior to Liverpools. Which is definitely not the case.
     
    #102
  3. CFC: Champs £launderx17

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2012
    Messages:
    19,844
    Likes Received:
    3,393
    Can we have our bus back pls?
     
    #103
  4. CFC: Champs £launderx17

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2012
    Messages:
    19,844
    Likes Received:
    3,393
    JM put Smalling and Blind on for Miki and Rashford (who was playing LB) against S'oton. And put Herrera on for Mata on 60 mins. Against S'oton. How did you think he would play at Anfield?
     
    #104
  5. luvgonzo

    luvgonzo Pisshead

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    102,250
    Likes Received:
    60,479
    I think you have to get used to JM using this type of tactic. I've always said that the bus thing is a bit of a joke and not true when you look at the whole picture. Take Chelsea when he they were doing well under Jose, they did attack teams and often but as the season went on the attacking football did tun more defensive especially in the last 3 months of the season. He will look at games like this and not want to lose, that will be the mentality. It will be very interesting to see how he sets up vs Spurs, I think he'll do the same and be very defensive and if he gets a point again he'll take that and move on.
     
    #105
  6. King Shergar

    King Shergar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2011
    Messages:
    9,051
    Likes Received:
    1,016
    It's not the tactic of parking the bus that I have the major issue with, as I have no problem with a manager using it when it is required. If we draw Real Madrid in the Champions League, then definitely set up that way in the away fixture. Even Fergie used to use it occasionally in Europe towards the end of his time with us.

    The problem I have is that Liverpool with all due respect are not a top side these days, you've won 1 in 7, your defence and keeper are poor, your midfield is average, and you don't even have a decent striker. So we should have been taking you on, and exposing those flaws, not showing you loads of respect and setting up to defend.
     
    #106
  7. luvgonzo

    luvgonzo Pisshead

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    102,250
    Likes Received:
    60,479
    I agree on some of that but who knows what would have happened if you had come at us the manager would have had less control over the game and we could have won 3-2 in an open game. Jose wanted control and he got that with his tactics, it could have gone to plan Lukaku chance or it could have gone wrong De Gea save but I don't think you should be too critical it was never the case that you were going to come to us and win 4-0 if you attacked I think that would have been unlikely in this fixture.

    Lukaku scores and he's a tactical genius.
    De Gea doesn't make the save and he's got fans on his back.

    Play an open game and it's a great game with goals from each side and it could go either way. Jose just isn't that type of manager.
     
    #107
  8. glazerfodder

    glazerfodder Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    4,858
    Likes Received:
    1,655
    If we have genuine title aspirations then we shouldn't be setting out for a draw in any of our games. If we lose, fine, we can make up the points later on - but it only takes a couple of games for the defensive mind-set to creep in. We have nothing to fear from any other PL side any more - we should be going for it every game. I can't see City setting up for a draw in any of their fixtures.
     
    #108
  9. luvgonzo

    luvgonzo Pisshead

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    102,250
    Likes Received:
    60,479
    Things will change for City though, they wont be knocking in 5 or more all season and as much as I get the point about not setting up for a draw at times those hard earned 1 point games are what at times get you the title.
     
    #109
  10. Christiansmith

    Christiansmith Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2011
    Messages:
    9,727
    Likes Received:
    1,558
    No it is quite as simple. JM has it all worked out.

    If we draw against a non rival like Saints or WBA then it is 2 points lost. However, a draw against a rival (for the top 4 at least) is more than 2 points it is the rival also losing 2 points.

    That's why JM will be upset drawing against a non top 6 side but against a rival away, he will take that all day long. Because he has not lost ground on that specific team.
     
    #110

  11. glazerfodder

    glazerfodder Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    4,858
    Likes Received:
    1,655
    I get the point about serious rivals - but not against Liverpool FFS
     
    #111
    Christiansmith likes this.
  12. Christiansmith

    Christiansmith Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2011
    Messages:
    9,727
    Likes Received:
    1,558
    <ok> <ok>
     
    #112
  13. Shwan71

    Shwan71 Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2016
    Messages:
    552
    Likes Received:
    100
    without 3rd CM, our mid were outnumbered .. what other options he had?
    we had many injuries and Pogba one hurt the most
    Mane's injury helped liverpool who played 3 CMs without him
     
    #113
  14. Chief

    Chief Northern Simpleton
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 17, 2011
    Messages:
    37,145
    Likes Received:
    23,970
    A midfield three of Matic, Herrera and Mata could and should have coped with ease with Liverpool's midfield. Not having Fellaini surely can't be used as an 'excuse' for not taking Liverpool on? Surely.

    Pogba is missed but we are good enough to cope with that against mediocre opposition.

    Can, Henderson and Wijnaldum aren't out of any top drawer I've ever seen.
     
    #114
  15. glazerfodder

    glazerfodder Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    4,858
    Likes Received:
    1,655
    Exactly - look at where they are in the table, are we going to set up the same for away games against Burnley and Newcastle and other mid-table dross.
     
    #115
  16. Stan

    Stan Stalker

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2014
    Messages:
    36,838
    Likes Received:
    24,157
    @Big Ern

    Everyone is entitled to their opinion but this is an example of why I find it bizarre that you think DDG is average.

    The football world disagrees, including one of the greats in Schmeichel and professional ABU Carragher.

    You'll trot out some stats about abject performances under LVG against MK Dons and another team but I can recall Schmeichel conceding 5+ goals under Fergie.

    http://www.skysports.com/football/n...who-is-the-best-goalkeeper-in-the-world-today
     
    #116
  17. glazerfodder

    glazerfodder Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    4,858
    Likes Received:
    1,655
    I don't know why they include Liverpool in this stat - but apparently that is 5 points we have managed in the last 10 away games against top 6 opposition.....
     
    #117
  18. Chief

    Chief Northern Simpleton
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 17, 2011
    Messages:
    37,145
    Likes Received:
    23,970
    Probably because, like it or not, Liverpool finished fourth last season.
     
    #118
  19. glazerfodder

    glazerfodder Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    4,858
    Likes Received:
    1,655
    Ridiculous stat
     
    #119
  20. Chief

    Chief Northern Simpleton
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 17, 2011
    Messages:
    37,145
    Likes Received:
    23,970
    It doesn't look good, no.

    It proves he plays those side to not lose, not to win.

    I personally would like to see that change, and as Liverpool (with Arsenal) are the weakest of those sides it should have happened on Saturday.
     
    #120

Share This Page