The Breakfast Debate

Eireleeds1 said:

My understanding is no but am open to correction

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I don't know one way or the other but he got the job due to his analysis and assessment of the previous squad - so you would assume that his opinion is valued and as he has to coach and put the team together you could imagine he would have input.

"Hey Tommy we have some options to discuss - we can have this guy who scores for fun and is a complete a' hole and doesn't fit into the style you want to play or you can have this guy who you will have to wiki but he will give 100% and fits in with your strategy - take a look and let us know what you think then we will try and get the deal across the line for the available cash"

sort of conversation - I could be wrong but there would have to be discussion

Eric Le Merde said:

I don't know one way or the other but he got the job due to his analysis and assessment of the previous squad - so you would assume that his opinion is valued and as he has to coach and put the team together you could imagine he would have input.

"Hey Tommy we have some option to discuss - we can have this guy who scores for fun and is a complete a' hole and doesn't fit into the style you want to play or you can have this guy who you will have to wiki but he will give 100% and fits in with your strategy - take a look and let us know what you think then we will try and get the deal across the line for the available cash"

sort of conversation - I could be wrong but there would have to be discussion

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I'd imagine it'd go something more like TC asking for a striker. They go off and get him one that fits into the style TC asked for

Josh-LUFC said:

I'd imagine it'd go something more like TC asking for a striker. They go off and get him one that fits into the style TC asked for

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that would do as well - it's not just A "hey we found this player do good things"

Morning

Eric Le Merde said:

that would do as well - it's not just A "hey we found this player do good things"

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I dont care if Cellino is still picking them if they keep working out. Before we get carried away totally, itll be interesting how the squad and TC handle the first blip whenever it comes. Thatll be a good test for all. We all know what the fans can get like after a couple of indifferent results that are inevitable at some point

My understanding is that Tommy is consulted about players. If he feels we are short in an area he brings it up with Orta, If Orta finds a player he then asks Tommy his opinion. I think that's how it works.

To finalise this debate between Ristac and Myself:
If I had an choice between Wood & Lassoga I would choose Lassoga because the price is a no brainer and I get a like for like striker, although Lassoga performed at a higher level than Wood. If I bought Wood for £18m I am lumbered with him and will never get my cash back if he fails. So insert Dwight Gayle for Wood. Value for money but both are a gamble. Lassoga would be behind Grot for me as I feel he will be a bit special, so I dont have a hard on for the German I just feel he could be a better gamble and at that price a no brainer.

Potential problems with Lassoga are he could be a big headed git, may cause unrest in the dressing room unless he has already been told how the world works at Leeds. He's a crowd favorite everywhere hes played and that can work against the dressing room if not handled properly. He had a hit and miss press from the media as many papers and YV shows thought he was the dogs, the others thought he was trouble. So as he's the only player we brought in on loan as the rest are on 4 year deals, I suspect this is a real try before you buy scenario.

Infidel said:

But why RCDM?? Gayle is not good enough for the Premier or the bar codes would have kept him, TC is building for the Premier so lets go with what he sees as the way forward and good future

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I just think Gayle is a proven goalscorer in this league and without him they wouldn't have been promoted last season. Not sure whether he's good enough for the premiership, but looking at some of the strikers in there, i'd certainly say he wouldn't be the worst.

However, we've made some signings which appear to working well, so i'm not questioning the decisions at the top at the moment.

Lets see how he gets on

ristac said:

On his two interviews I have seen, when questioned about future signings he has said you need to ask Orta

Definitely final say on starting 11 tactics and everything game related but not on who comes in. Maybe a say on who he doesn't need and who may leave.

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ristac said:

On his two interviews I have seen, when questioned about future signings he has said you need to ask Orta

Definitely final say on starting 11 tactics and everything game related but not on who comes in. Maybe a say on who he doesn't need and who may leave.

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Doc said:

My understanding is that Tommy is consulted about players. If he feels we are short in an area he brings it up with Orta, If Orta finds a player he then asks Tommy his opinion. I think that's how it works.

To finalise this debate between Ristac and Myself:
If I had an choice between Wood & Lassoga I would choose Lassoga because the price is a no brainer and I get a like for like striker, although Lassoga performed at a higher level than Wood. If I bought Wood for £18m I am lumbered with him and will never get my cash back if he fails. So insert Dwight Gayle for Wood. Value for money but both are a gamble. Lassoga would be behind Grot for me as I feel he will be a bit special, so I dont have a hard on for the German I just feel he could be a better gamble and at that price a no brainer.

Potential problems with Lassoga are he could be a big headed git, may cause unrest in the dressing room unless he has already been told how the world works at Leeds. He's a crowd favorite everywhere hes played and that can work against the dressing room if not handled properly. He had a hit and miss press from the media as many papers and YV shows thought he was the dogs, the others thought he was trouble. So as he's the only player we brought in on loan as the rest are on 4 year deals, I suspect this is a real try before you buy scenario.

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Each to their own opinion Doc, I respect yours but I am somewhat amazed you'd swap a player who was leading scorer and hit the net over 30 times last season for a Gamble, it really does amaze me why price comes into it?

So if Wood had said I don't want to leave you'd have shoved him out the door and pocketed £18m to sit there for January's war chest? I just don't see what money sitting in the bank until January has over replacing Wood with a Gamble and pocketing the money...

Another question. Why are we obsessing a bit with Gayle. According to the YEP people we didnt make any offer so we might as well discuss Messi. 20m pound players demand corresponding wages and thats not 15k a week. We wont ever spend 20m on anyone or the accompanying likely 40k a week until were back in the PL even if thats only 41 games away

Josh-LUFC said:

I'd imagine it'd go something more like TC asking for a striker. They go off and get him one that fits into the style TC asked for

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spot on Josh ... Tommy stated when he was hired that he has input into signings ... he wants a certain type of player and Orta builds a list, and Tommy even recommends some ... scouts are constantly on the lookout for players who fit the Leeds blueprint ... Orta and Radz do the haggling once everyone has agreed on a player ... remember, even if Tommy recommends a player, and chances are he would have recommended Lasogga via his German connections, not every player is available ... this is where Orta's team earn their corn, by finding quality alternatives who are available at the right price ... I very much doubt that Orta simply signs a player HE wants and then tells Tommy to make it work ... the Radz way is everyone together, working the plan in harmony

as for Tommy's "you have to ask Victor" comments in every post-match interview when asked about a specific player coming or going, well it's simple really ... the club do not leak any information on signings, and Tommy is keeping with the script, leaving announcements to be done professionally by the club ... when Tommy gets asked about signings in general, e.g. "do you expect any more players to come in/leave" then he has said "we will maybe see two more", or something along those lines ... Radz is running a very professional operation at Leeds, and it is quite funny to see the speculation around new signings ... the only time we get wind of a new face is when the club they're leaving leak it, and then the deal is done anyway and the player is in Leeds for a medical

there is no point in looking for trouble or areas that will cause friction at Leeds because there aren't any ... it is a very happy club with ambition, and add to this the incredible talent available on the pitch then top six is definitely not a pipe dream ... we know the team is capable, they dismantled Sunderland and Forest and battled well in the opener at Bolton ... with a bit more luck they would have beaten Preston and the much fancied Fulham as well ... the Cup opponents saw nine goals fly into their nets as the reserves staked their claims ... so Leeds are very capable of winning the whole thing, all that's needed is that they continue to deliver consistently ... if these results were ground out, real scraps against evenly matched teams then you'd for sure say it's going to be a hard season and a tough ask ... the style and manner of the Leeds performances says that talent is not an issue here, it's all about mental strength and desire ... so far Tommy has shown himself to be a leader who gets his troops together, and I have no doubt that when the blip comes it will be dealt with ... form is temporary, class is permanent

I think you've taken some things the wrong way Billy, I certainly haven't read anything into "looking for trouble". Eire asked a valid question and it was being debated, that's how I see it

Eire did also add "Have I picked up the situation wrong?" and "Correct me if I'm wrong" - It's just a debate Billy and friendly discussion

Eireleeds1 said:

Another question. Why are we obsessing a bit with Gayle.

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Because Elland asked the question so that we would have something to debate?

ristac said:

Each to their own opinion Doc, I respect yours but I am somewhat amazed you'd swap a player who was leading scorer and hit the net over 30 times last season for a Gamble, it really does amaze me why price comes into it?

So if Wood had said I don't want to leave you'd have shoved him out the door and pocketed £18m to sit there for January's war chest? I just don't see what money sitting in the bank until January has over replacing Wood with a Gamble and pocketing the money...

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don't think Doc meant that if Wood wanted to stay we should have sold him anyway ... none of us would have wanted Wood to go against his wishes, after all he did the business for us ... the fact he felt his future lay elsewhere, and the fact that Leeds had negotiated with him for a month before he left meant that he was always going to end up going, and Leeds did some great business to get that figure for him ... as I understand Doc, he's saying that if Wood was at another club, Leeds wouldn't be paying £18m for him plus £50k p/week, and rightly so, therefore Gayle isn't worth paying that much for either ... I agree, and as much as I'd like Gayle at our club, the finances are wrong ... Lasogga is coming in on a bargain deal, he's experienced and he will add to the dressing room ... he will also be absolutely clear as to the culture at the club and what's expected of him, so I don't expect him to be a "trouble maker" or "big head", that's a load of nonsense and not in keeping with the signings so far ... Lasogga has a massive opportunity to revive his career after injury, and it's a chance he will want to grab with both hands, just as Pontus did

Ristac no way would I have wanted Wood to go, even if he was crap this season he deserved to have another go. He has gone though and would I pay £18m for him no way, besides no player in the history of the modern game in the Championship has ever repeated his goal scoring fete of the previous season, therefore the odds on Wood giving us plus 20 goals were small. In fairness to Wood he saw the way Tommy was building his team mainly as a way of taking the pressure off Wood, and he knew his style of play suited him being elsewhere otherwise he wouldnt be picked for every game.

Gayle would maybe have struggled to get over 20 goals again this season.

So my preference for Lassoga has everything to do with a gamble, great odds, great price, more upsides than not. Still thing Grot is better & wouldnt have moaned if we signed Gayle as he is proven, but overpriced as are every UK based player

Doc said:

Ristac no way would I have wanted Wood to go, even if he was crap this season he deserved to have another go. He has gone though and would I pay £18m for him no way, besides no player in the history of the modern game in the Championship has ever repeated his goal scoring fete of the previous season, therefore the odds on Wood giving us plus 20 goals were small. In fairness to Wood he saw the way Tommy was building his team mainly as a way of taking the pressure off Wood, and he knew his style of play suited him being elsewhere otherwise he wouldnt be picked for every game.

Gayle would maybe have struggled to get over 20 goals again this season.

So my preference for Lassoga has everything to do with a gamble, great odds, great price, more upsides than not. Still thing Grot is better & wouldnt have moaned if we signed Gayle as he is proven, but overpriced as are every UK based player

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Reading through the last few posts, the future for English football looks very bleak. Up and coming players either eventually rising to the heady heights of playing for Burnley, Bournemouth etc or bench warming further up the ladder. Certainly not good news for the national team

How things have changed though, we are debating over a 20 million quid striker and a 50k per week striker.

Imagine that

Eireleeds1 said:

Reading through the last few posts, the future for English football looks very bleak. Up and coming players either eventually rising to the heady heights of playing for Burnley, Bournemouth etc or bench warming further up the ladder. Certainly not good news for the national team

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Exactly my point the other day in another post. Over the last 3 years our academy products have not hit the heights of the golden period, mainly because the best kids now go to Man City before Leeds thanks to Bates. Our coaching hasnt been any good since they left to set up Man City's academy. Taylor, Cook, Byrom all bench warming and we thought they were the dogs bollox. The last one who made it was Delph so hoping what Radz is doing bares fruit in a couple of years.

If average players and lets be blunt, Wood is an average player, McWage was average and hasnt reproduced the goals that got him his wages. Gayle quoted at £20m last week. All those young kids that Southgate has in the U19s, U21s, U17s World Cup winners & European Trophy winners none of them get regular football for their clubs especially in the Prem - WHY? because overseas players are cheaper & no VAT charged. Radz/Orta deals with sister clubs in Spain, Japan, Middle East means we get all the benefits in a couple of years but doesnt make the National teams at home any better, in fact makes our chances dire

Maybe its time our National team were put on contracts to the FA like the England cricket team to MCC, then maybe enter the team into the Premier League

Eireleeds1 said:

Another question. Why are we obsessing a bit with Gayle. According to the YEP people we didnt make any offer so we might as well discuss Messi. 20m pound players demand corresponding wages and thats not 15k a week. We wont ever spend 20m on anyone or the accompanying likely 40k a week until were back in the PL even if thats only 41 games away

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what's with all the queations what about some answers !!!!



The future is bright and white MOT

The-Don said:

Morning

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A man who makes my absence here look like a day trip.
Hows things?

The-Don said:

How things have changed though, we are debating over a 20 million quid striker and a 50k per week striker.

Imagine that

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Indeed I wouldn't get out of bed for that