Northern Dancer and Danzig did. Sadler's Wells did. So some do. Was Dubawi that good a racehorse? He was beautifully bred with wonderful confirmation, and with his considerable ability that is probably the important factor in his success. His produce are often very good lookers. Well let's wait and see what happens. As a sire Frankel has shown two areas of concern to me. The first was that not many of his first crop ran as 2yos. So while his wins to runners ratio is astonishing his wins to foals born is just good. The second is that a lot of them have shown ability but an inclination to pull. That is a terrible energy wasting inclination and will impact any horse. He is not having such a overhyped crop of 2yos this year. That may be a good thing. But other than his Japanese filly he may not be showing outstanding 3yos this year. People who have lots of money usually know value and how to spend it wisely.
I doubt his fee won't going anywhere for the foreseeable, at least until we see how good his second and maybe third crops are. By any measure Frankel's first crop has been a success, the comparison to Dubawi shows that and his 2014 crop is almost up with Galileo's in terms of stakes winners to runners (2%) less. Frankel even has a better group winners to runners ratio than Gaileo. If you asked Juddmonte in April last year if they would take where he currently is I'm sure they would bite your hand off.
Dubawi was a very good racehorse, he won 3 G1s. A very good start to your stallion career to produce a horse like that from your first crop. Not to mention how many other high class sires Dubai Millenium could have produced himself going on Dubawi's success. The 2 areas of concern you mention with Frankel, kind of probably tie in with each other. They are probably not running at 2 because of their refusal to settle in races. The biggest area of concern I would have is how slow they are, I'd of expected Frankel to produce horses who are more effective at shorter trips. Maybe it just shows how much stamina Frankel really did posses. It brings us back to the whole Derby debate
Look at his action though, Peeping Fawn turned around the form with Light Shift majorly on Heavy ground in Ireland. Ulysses wants a road, his class took him into the race yesterday but imo he did not quicken, he did in the Eclipse and Enable did yesterday.
Just when I thought the nonsense had stopped. Eddie is now starting on the action of Ulysses, claiming it's only suited to firm ground, oh dear oh dear He hits the ground way to hard to have what some would call a fast ground action. He barely quickened in the Eclipse, he came there travelling like Montjeu, but came off the bridle like Harchibald. Peeping Fawn on any ground was a miles better fillie than Light Shift, she just threw away the oaks by pulling and misbehaving throughout the race. Her reversal of form in the Irish Oaks was not down to the ground, it was down to Peeping Fawn showing up. Peeping Fawn was for me one of the best fillies I've seen, in terms of pure ability. She was just very head strong at times. Either way Light Shift was very effective with cut in the ground, and showed her best form in those conditions. So there is every reason to believe Ulysses loves the mud too. The biggest mud lover since Yahoo if you ask me
"he came there travelling like Montjeu, but came off the bridle like Harchibald." ----- there are poets among us! As an aside I rate Montjeu as one of the top three flat horses I have seen 'live'. Although I lost a substantial ante post bet on the great horse in the Epsom Derby I had the pleasure of being present with my Mum for his wins in the Prix du Jockey Club and the Prix de L'Arc de Triomphe at Chantilly and Longchamp respectively.
He came there like Montjeu but the difference was it wasnt Daliapour paddling in front, it was Enable, who loves the mud, full of running at the 2 pole. Ulysses probably put up a better performance than Montjeu in finishing 2nd here.
I was saying not long ago about Abdullah being the best owner, its weird how he seems to always get the proper superstars, Frankel, Kingman and Enable just recently, and back a bit, the likes of Zafonic and Dancing Brave, while Ballydoyle and Godolphin get half decent plodders in comparison despite throwing a lot more cash at it. Juddmonte must have the best mares.
On the 19th July, Enable was not the top rated 3yo in Europe. She was not even the top rated 3yo in Europe on Saturday morning. I cannot find any post on the Arc thread where King Shergar states that Enable would win the King George; indeed at the time of writing he has not posted on that thread at all. On this thread, clued up punters saw the Oaks run on soft ground (because it was raining) in the fastest Oaks time ever recorded at Epsom. (Before you ask, the top rated 3yo in Europe on 9th July was Churchill. Brametot, Caravaggio and Enable were rated two pounds inferior) Despite it being “months and months” since the Oaks on June 2nd, I have looked for a post (“But I know I said on here that Enable would win the King George easily if she was given the opportunity to Run, this was just after the Oaks.”) without success. His only post mentioning Enable or the Oaks was on the ‘2017 Eclipse Stakes’ thread on 10th July. The mind does play tricks on some people... that is why the NHS are getting 21,000 new mental health staff whilst not filling the 86,000 vacancies they already have.
I don't look at Official ratings QM. I refer to Timeform ratings and I think she was after the Oaks. Even if she wasn't, she was my top rated 3yo in Europe; and that's what matters most to me
This is just getting petty now, if that post on the Eclipse thread is not implying that I thought Enable was the best middle distance horse around, then I don't know what is Saying I thought she would beat all the top rated horses over any trip, is apperantly not saying she's the best around ok That was not the actual post I was referring to, but I'm not going through months of posts just to prove a point over something so petty.
Rock of Gibralter was as good as all of them, except Frankel, and his race record was as impressive. But yeah admittedly, Ballydoyle have struggled to really find that superstar, definitely in recent years anyways.
You have no idea what you are on about. Balydoyle only sweep up just about all the group ones going year in year out for the last 20 odd years. I've been to most f the top stud farms and cool more is head and shoulders above the rest globally .
You are completely taking my comment out of context. All I've said is they've not had a real superstar horse for quite a while. They definitely win the most G1s, but in terms of having a dominant champion racehorse it has been a while since they've had one. Pretty much all of their classic winners have gone out on a low, losing their end of season races. I don't doubt that they have the best stud farm, and are a hugely successful team. Thats not what we where discussing though.
