OK tonight was quite dispiriting, but honestly who was looking for points from tonight's game? I think we all had it down as a defeat, but we ALL need to put this behind us and concentrate on the NEXT GAME. IMO Coventry is a "6 pointer", and we need to win - ugly or pretty. And I don't often advocate "winning ugly". For all those praying for "big signings" I'm not sure if you are going to be satisfied, but for definite SD needs to work with what he has right now. And he has a pretty OK squad - some were saying it was a great squad, but IMO the squad is good enough for a challenging "bottom half" finish, although you can guage how nervous we are by all the talk of where we will finish - and its only mid August!!!! Dyche and his coaching team need to work with Iwelumo, clearly they signed him so they must know what they believe he can do. He has certainly disappointed so far, for me its not just the lack of goals its the lack of "the basics". A big forward needs to be robust when needed and lightweight when needed, and Chris isn't getting this balance right. A good forward needs to be able to hold possession whenever possible to supply other players and reduce the pressure on the defence. But more important, any professional player needs to show commitment to the cause by trying, even when the odds are stacked against the player. An example of this was Tommy Mooney - when he joined us from Southend the Southend supporters derided him, but he showed commitment from day 1. He then overcame a dreadful season with Jamie Moralee and even played in defence before resurrecting his whole career in the Spring of 1999. So in brief I saw the Derby result as a setback after the positives and negatives of Burnley. Tonight I didn't want to lose by 4, but it happened. Now its all about grit, SD needs to work with the players and turn up at Coventry on Saturday with a team of players ALL firing on ALL cylinders - no passengers. I've just seen the highlights of Coventry's defeat at Palace - they will sick to the seat of their pants, and they will be as nervous as nervous could be on Saturday. I reckon it will be easier to be the away side, and for sure I want us to score 1st (and 2nd, and 3rd .....). So put this game behind us, lift the heads and get on with it, the season is still up for grabs. (But I don't rate our chances of the play-offs!)
If i could rep this i would. Very well said Elixir. I can't believe that there are already people crying out for SD's head...pathetic! I would like to think that Iwelumo is saving his best performances for Saturday onwards..he really didn't look like doing anything useful tonight, but you're right, it would be good to see him at least try to run fast, even if he can't! Other than that though, i thought there were some good performances tonight..can't fault the effort in most areas of the pitch, and Marvin and Craig were a cut above for me. I also love Dickinson's attitude, and Yeates scurries about looking like he wants to mess the opposition up a bit. I do wish our new LB wasn't quite so hoofy, but that's going to be down to SD, unless he wants him to play that way. All in all, you're right, this was never going to be a game we were going to shine in..come Saturday, i hope we'll get our season really started. It's my favourite away game, so it has to be good!
Well put keep the faith its going to be a long season and West Ham with their players aren't the bookies favourites for nothing. These games are not thetargeted ones we need to compete against the Coventrys, Peterbrough, Barnsley types and we will be ok.
How daft would it be to get rid of Dyche...who could we get? TBH If we did win there and had 4 points from the 4 games it might not look so bad. Must admit I was more frustrated by Saturday as tonight we were never going to get much. The way we feel apart again bothered me..happened last season a lot even when we did so well and same again 3 times now.
i didn't think we fell apart tonight...well, perhaps not until the last 20 minutes or so...even when the first goal went in, which could have got heads dropping, we tried...even after the second goal went in, right after half time, we were fighting...i think if anything we dropped off towards the end, but even the fans had given up hope by then!
I think the signings are decent but we definately need another goalscorer. Sordell cannot be expected to replace graham's goals and i fear if we don't get another striker in we will sink pretty fast. Saturday will be a tough game, and the pressure will be heavily on. However i do feel we can and should win the game if they give it 100%
It's pretty clear that we need one more striker, and I'd be saying it even if Sordell, Iwelumo and Massey were all playing well purely because of numbers. Sure, there's Deeney, but he's arguably our most versatile attacking player, which counts for a lot with a five man bench. If he's being thought of in that way (and he should be) then we surely need one more striker. But other than that, I'm not as despondent as I would normally be after this sort of start to a season. For once we have the meat and bones of a very good squad, and it's because Dyche was at the center of rebuilding that I am in no doubt that he can turn this around, regardless of whether he's cut out for management in the longer term. Should he ultimately turn out to be a short term disaster, the foundations are there for someone else to step in and have a realistic chance of saving the season. That wasn't the case last season, and it wasn't the case the season before. But let's not go down the ifs, buts and next manager odds route. All Dychey needs to do is keep the lads believing that they're a good team, and in particular keep Marv believing that if he carries on as he is, the goals will come. Hypnotising Iwelumo into thinking that he's Pelé would be a bonus, à la Clough with Psycho. In Dyche We Trust!
The last thing I want to see is Dyche booted out, he needs our support right now more then ever. The only thing I want to see is a reaction to the mistakes that have been made so far. . He may be a young manager but if we as fans can see the weaknesses in the team then someone who has played proffessionally certainly can. For me there are 3 key things to address for the Coventry game, to me they are quite obvious: 1/ Defence: Mirfin must be used, AM & MT just dont work as a partnership that does not concede goals, from what I have seen Taylor is not to the level of last year, Marriapa seems to play well but then be directly responsible for conceding. And although I think LLoyd has done well I would opt for a back 4 of Mariappa, Mirfin, Taylor, Dickinson 2/ Midfield: We have no invention in the centre of the park, I still think RJ has the potential to get better but he watched the game go past him last night, I would prsonally put Josh Walker in and let him sink or swim, if not stick Bauban in, he must be fit enough to give us 70 mins! Wingers need to stay as wingers, Yeates looks quality but seems to be swapping wings with Forsyth without letting anyone know. I think Forsythe is going to be a good player when the team settles! 3/ Attack: CI just isnt the type of player we need, he forces a team to punt the ball into his chest/head and he cannot win the ball and take the pressure away from the rest of the team, we have gone from one of the hardest working CF to one of the laziest. MS is playing well but needs more support, personally would like to see a player like AW back on loan form Villa. All in all concerned, but will still stay as a glass half full guy over half empty like far too many WFC fans I have read comments from ... Heres to a win on saturday !!!
CI should be nothing more than plan B. His presence returns to being a hoof ball team again. We need a loan striker and midfielder plus a keeper if possible. If we persist with the hoof we will be down by Xmas. This is starting to look like a two tier league and while West Ham may not have been. Target game, being humiliated wasn't the plan I'm sure. We've seen the core of this team play football and with the exception of CI the new signings look capable. Get the ball down, stop lumping it forward and play football.
Anyone who even thinks of getting rid of Dyche is unreal - the subject should not even be up for discussion - whoever thought we would have an easy ride - new manager, new backroom team, new players - takes time to gel
I get the impression there is only one person who thinks we should get rid of Dyche.... and he only ever comes on after a defeat It seems we are desperately short of a striker - we seem to create chances, but just not able to put them away at the moment! Coupled with mistakes leading to goals, and we are going to struggle. Mistakes often come out of a loss of confidence, so if we can just find that goalscorer to put it away when we are on top, the confidence should feed through all the team! Saying that, every team is looking for 'that' goalscorer....
I still have confidence for the season. By "confidence", I mean we won't be relegated. I thought we played very well in the last two games. Our passing has improved greatly, and so has our composure and control. Against Derby, we were unlucky. Against West Ham, we were again unlucky and out-classed (on a side note, they did look very good. I was also impressed with their support!) Iwelumo looks desperately short of confidence. Give him a few more games and I'm sure we'll see the best of him. Also, Craig Forsyth has impressed me hugely. He isn't the quickest, but is brilliant in every other aspect. Passing, heading, attacking, defending. He does these all very well.
A very good point on a very good thread! Burnley and Derby games could easily have netted us 4 points instead of 1 ,we were competitive in these games ! I have a feeling we wont be the last to be thrashed by Big Sam's Hammers! We just need that spark to ignite things ,that bit of luck ,where sordells shot goes in rather than hitting the woodwork! We are talking very fine margins!
I think it's pretty harsh to blame a forward for the way an entire team plays. Spurs under Redknapp are easy on the eye, even when they play Crouch. When Shearer played for Newcastle they tended to keep it on the floor, despite his aerial prowess. I could list numerous other examples of good footballing sides which have included a target man. Iwelumo had a poor game and I gather was unimpressive against Derby too. But to suggest that his presence in the side somehow compels other players to punt the ball aimlessly forward is nonsense. It's much more likely that team tactics are determined by the manager. Like others I'm not too disheartened just yet. So we lost to West Ham... Whatever. They are probably better on paper than a handful of Premiership teams this year. Derby was a more disappointing result, but at least we created chances. One of those days, I guess.
I understand your point OLM but in those examples the target man was generally receiving the ball from forward wide positions. Perhaps I see CI as the 'blame' because his presence dictates the style of play - but you are right, seeing Dickenson and sadly Eustace (who has a great passing game) having to fire long balls from defensive positions gets frustrating but must be the managers directive. Forsyth look like he enjoys running 20/30 yards with the ball and carrying if towards defences works so much better. We also have good wide players and perhaps when we have McGinn and Yeats on the flanks we can stop by-passing the midfield. Perhaps as Salisbury says, we need another striker. A loanee maybe and use the long ball as Plan B when we need it.
We seem to be creating plenty of chances, I think we need a bit more quality upfront to convert those chances.
There is the view that Big Chris isn't fully fit.. playing him in such a condition will hardly help as clearly that affects performances and such is the nature of football now fans do feel they have the right to boo etc because they pay good money to watch the games. I know Bassini said we needed another striker so sure we are trying but not having much luck. Maybe we just need to push the boat out a bit more money wise...not spending millions ofcourse but getting a couple of players that will give the team more confidence.
I thought the second goal on the stroke of half time did the damage. you could argue it was quite even up to then. It was a soft goal in that the ball was carried a long way by the WHU player - he should have been fouled. We were always chasing the game second half and it was rather inevitable that WHU with their quality would break and score a goal or two. I actually think defenders play it long - not becuse we have a tall target man - but because of a lack of options in midfield, and because our defenders are feeling the pressure from opposing midfield. Having said that I was actually surprised and pleased to see how often we did small, neat passing triangles at the back, finding the spare man, would play into our midfield. So, disappointing start to the season results-wise, but early days, and plenty of promise to work on.
