I'm saying punch ups cause more deaths. Attacks of this sort are like plane crashes. They are personal tragedies for the victims and their families. They are eye catching news stories. They are something we should prevent as far as reasonably possible. They are not threats to our way of life. We are not at war with them. They don't warrant becoming a police state.
If these terrorists were actually organised (and god forbid they ever get their act together) they could cause hundreds, or even thousands, of deaths. A coordinated attack on several cities at once would be devastating. We've got to stop this before it gets to this magnitude. Crashing into people on a bridge in a van or stabbing people is very low-tech. Exploding a bomb in a concert arena is a major worry. Carrying bombs and automatic weapons into a shopping centre would be a major worry. Again, and like what has already been said umpteen times on this board, allowing people back into the country who have been involved in Syria should be a no-no. With up to 30,000 loonies out there this could get very nasty.
There's a video doing the rounds on Facebook taken by the girlfriend of one of the victims. It shows her boyfriend lying prone with paramedics treating him. It shows the horrific stab wounds that he received from these people. I suggest that those people that think that is an isolated incident or nothing to worry about it watch it and imagine that it is one of their loved ones lying there. Your wife/ husband/ girlfriend/ boyfriend/ son/daughter/ grand kids could go the Metro Centre, a concert or a walk in Newcastle and end up like that. Three attacks in the space of two months is a deliberate and concerted attack on this country and its people. It will not get better and will only get worse if we do not tackle the root cause.
If things were much, much worse then they would be much worse. Obviously. We should do what we can to prevent something worse happening. Obviously. Abandoning the rule of law and acting arbitrarily especially against an identifiable minority will make things better rather than worse. Not quite so obvious.
Mate our airforce if bombing their hideouts on a daily basis. We're at war with them. We've been at war for 16 years. They definitely think they're at war with us. Our military thinks they're at war with them. It's a question of distorted reality from a significant proportion of the civilian populus, so I don't blame you. But we're definietly at war, we just like to tell ourselves we aren't, because we're the good guys and we don't fight wars anymore. Plus we're not having food rations or war tax or a draft. And at this stage your numbers are all wrong, most certainly have 35 people not died from 'punch ups' in 3 months. And when has a british airline last had an aeroplane crash? 1989? You're most certainly more likely to be killed in a terrorist attack in this day and age than in a planecrash, the likelyhood is probably 1000 fold.
And we can only imagine what the number of deaths would be had the security services not foiled umpteen plots.
If you believe that you are a ****ing tit. Perhaps when the bubble bursts that you live in, you might change your mind.
The issue is that this war can't be fought like any war we've ever fought. The closest thing we have to it is the Troubles, but in that case the IRA at least had political ends they were trying to achieve - these guys, if they are ISIS, want basically death and terror, and in the longer term the black flag flying over Westminster. You can't compromise with someone whose aims are like that. But what you equally can't do is see someone travelling on the bus in a hijab, and attack them for wearing a hijab. You can't arrest an imam for no reason other than that he's an imam. These actions will make the situation worse, not better. What I fear is likely to happen at some point is that someone will listen to the 'enough is enough' message, and decide to run their car into a group of worshippers leaving a mosque, then get out with his knife and kill a bunch of them. We've seen nationalist copycats before now, like the guy who tried to kill a random Asian guy in a supermarket as 'revenge for Lee Rigby'. Getting outraged and pounding the table when someone commits an atrocity does as much good as changing your Facebook pic (as in zero). We have to face up to the fact that this is a complex problem, and like any complex problem it has a complex solution, which nobody knows the answer to yet. Easy answers are generally not answers at all.
Well, their propoganda is certainly working You're right. ISIS and these British born lowlife are one and the same. They are very, very scary and will destroy everything we value. The only way to stop them is to abandon everything we stand for and give the government freedom to do whatever it wants to whoever it wants. That will make us safer.
Anyone seen the Sky News interview with the former head investigating officer of the Met? He accused the PM and Home Secretary of lying to the public and laid bare the true facts about Police cuts. He also let daesh know that attacking the likes of London, Manchester Birmingham is pointless because of resources. Other cities however have threadbare resources so the Police response would not be as rapid. You know where I am going with this right?
Sorry, don't get the analogy How many young kids have been killed as a result of a Saturday night punch up?? How many people sitting innocently in a bar, or walking down the street have been killed as a result of a Saturday night punch up?? ISIL have been responsible for 17 attacks across the world in 2017 alone - including the UK, Syria, Turkey, France and Iraq - killing over 460 people and injuring in excess of 7000 - hardly a bunch of "petty criminals". That's in 2017, want the figures for the last few years too?
People having a hardline reaction is what the attacks are designed to do. So it's definitely having the effect they want.
Unfortunately, one of the things that we can do and probably should for the time being is have more armed police officers where there are large numbers of people in public. I think it would be a deterrent to an extent and hopefully shut down any attacks quickly should they break out. It will cost a lot of money to put in place but it would be worth it if people are safer and maybe more importantly feel safer in the towns and cities.
Thought this was quite interesting: https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/2...animous-fatwa-declaring-suicide-attacks-Haram Sure it's not going to stop the nutters, but it does chip away at the idea that it's a universal problem with Islam itself.
The Icke comment related to the fact these cancerous polips of society will always find an excuse. It wasn't even a joke, it was a point. The attack the heart is in relation to black ops missions acting behind public view killing the mass murdering bastads at the "heart" of ISIS; putting it front and centre of BBC news is in a way helping them. The political stuff is precisely about looking at the way we allow Extremist behaviour with little moderation but moreover how we get better allied support from political discussion with India, Pakistan, etc. The one thing we can't forget is there's almost infinitely more of "us", but we are all on the same side with the same goal.
The police and intelligence services probably already have the laws and powers in place to deal with radicalisation and terrorism without us having to give up long held ideals and ways of life. That's not to say that there won't need to be tweaks along the way to respond to changes in technology and behaviour - as there are with any laws. What they don't have enough of is resources. Our emergency services should never have been subject to austerity cuts. We keep talking about giving them the tools to do the job, but the tools only work if there are people to use them.
This ^^ There are 7 billion people in the world and 6.999 billion of them are not terrorists. While it is a fight that still needs to be fought against them, ensuring as few casualties along the way as possible, it is a fight that they cannot win.
More Americans kill other Americans with guns than terrorists have done. And let's not get into Russia and the amount of people that are beaten and killed for being gay or black etc. Are you suggesting we should be more like them and put 1000s of more people at risk?
