Off Topic The Politics Thread
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More whinging on Question Time from Muslims about feeling persecuted. Meanwhile the liberals clap along and give out the same ****ing platitudes about all pulling together and ensuring we don't upset the followers of this medieval faith.
A guy read out a leaflet given to him at Disbury mosque which was very anti Western culture etc. He was shut up very quickly when he tried to continue the debate.
Meanwhile we sit back and watch our children being slain.
I ****ing despair!
A guy read out a leaflet given to him at Disbury mosque which was very anti Western culture etc. He was shut up very quickly when he tried to continue the debate.
Meanwhile we sit back and watch our children being slain.
I ****ing despair!
He makes some good points about some of the things that our security services could have done or should be doing. I wouldn't want him setting policy, but I'm sure he understands how to execute policy directives effectively.
Col, I officially appoint you to be Prime Minister for the day.
What would you do to make us all safer and to stop the people promoting this from gaining further traction?
I think you're right about the fact Sweden hasn't been active in the way the UK has. There is a nasty far-right element in Sweden, though, and they do have a lot of refugees. There is increasing levels of friction being reported, so maybe they have people there who feel the west is against them and their Muslim brothers (which is Wahhabist propaganda spread by manipulative clerics) just like we do. From memory, I think they're in better shape than we are because I don't think anyone they've identified is actually Swedish-born, but I may not be correct about that.
To be fair to Corbyn, (which can be difficult), I don't think he or anyone else is saying we were bad people for getting involved in the Middle East in recent years. It looked like the right thing to do for both us and them at the time to most people (some disagreed - I didn't). Hindsight has shown us it wasn't, and it generated unforeseen consequences that we're now dealing with at home. Now we can see those consequences, maybe we can leave well alone there and focus on our own internal issues first. I'd rather pay a policeman's salary for another year than fire another missile - and I think the costs are similar.
Put the liberals on the next boat out after the Muslims by the look of it. But it's an unfair question Dipper and you know it. It's not Col's job to come up with a solution. He, like a lot of people including me, is angry, not just at the atrocity, but at the whole situation which has lead us to this state of affairs. From what I am reading he feels that our liberal values are at least partly to blame. In the case of Islam (or some forms of Islam, I can't be arsed to sub divide it) I think he may be right - it's such an isolating, all inclusive ideology (honestly, a religion which tells you how to dress and what to eat? And I know it's not the only one) that being open to it and making allowances for it may be a waste of time. But taking a defiantly illiberal approach to it, like in France (a proper secularist country), doesn't seem to help either. Today the police have said that ALL 3000 people they are trying to monitor have been brought to their attention by the Muslim community. I would like to compare this to France, how helpful is the community there (I don't know)?
Col, you know where I stand on religion and especially religious violence (and for that matter any totalitarian ideology, religious or political, no matter how 'peace loving' they claim to be or even are. All are straitjackets for the mind). Our liberal values might have significant downsides, and they may be ones that you are not prepared to accept, but for me they are part of what makes us 'us'. Chuck them out and the consequences are much broader than tackling Islamic extremism, and even that might not work. I am not willing to make the trade off. Yet.
But I do wish those people saying they feel persecuted just because they are Muslim, and the other apologists, would button it for a bit. Not helping. And I do blame the Liberals Democrats for getting rid of (Labour's) Control Orders as a condition for entering the coalition, and May for not bringing them back at the first opportunity. The TPIM successor is feeble and not even used - only 7 people on them.
Came across this article a couple of days ago, with regards to religion....
www.indy100.com/article/scientist-looked-through-63-studies-conclude-atheists-more-intelligent-religious-people-metanalysis-7733926%3Famp
It may be an over-simplification, but religious zealots have been responsible for the vast majority of wars for centuries. As a fully-blown atheist, I can't understand the beliefs of even some of my friends, who have been indoctrinated in their faith system (either Catholic or Protestant) whilst appearing to be intelligent people, let alone the Islamic fundamentalists who are following a religion so steeped in medieval tenets.
My problem with this, TBD, is that having made ill-advised forays into both Afghanistan and Iraq and seen the problems this has caused, both in those respective countries and the repercussions at home, we have systematically repeated these mistakes in both Libya and Syria. What is it called when you repeat the same actions again and again whilst hoping for different results?
Totally agree with you about funding home security over military folly overseas.
Tony Fernandes syndrome.
It's called "repeating your mistakes", like you wrote, and I wish we'd stop.
Speaking of which what do we do with nob jockeys like this one. Not sure if i should feel bad because he has "autism" or whether i think he's got off lightly cause he'll probably be out in 5 and be even more angry than he is. This one is pretty close to home for me as i travel the jubilee line everyday
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40059351
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40059351
You're right... And another excellent post explaining your feelings. Col, I withdraw my offer of PMship. It wasn't fair. I don't have any answers either, just questions, frustrations and anger about all of it. You sometimes express yourself in a way that pushes my button, and I know I do it to you, too.