Interesting interview with a SNP MP on 5 Live a little while ago. When pushed to answer what the Plan B would be if Scotland could not continue to use the Pound Sterling as it's currency - he refused to answer. This is not a trivial matter and has huge consequences for the people of Scotland and gambling of the UK government giving in and let Scotland use the Pound Stirling is a very dangerous bet....
Personally I think this is different. Scots should be going into this with their eyes as wide open as possible. Instead the SNP are simply selling a concept with no substance underpinning it. And to object to being lectured by the English is a bit rich. Have you read the manifesto? All ii does is to lecture us and tell us what is in our best interests. I am sympathetic to the Scots wish for independence, it's just a shame it's being driven by clueless Salmond and the equally clueless SNP.
Do you mean the Tory/Lib coalition by your reference to 2010? If so - it was a well trawled possibility. Nobody was going to get into bed with Gordon Brown.
Probably the two most important issues for Scotland are that of currency and EU membership. Without those two issues being resolved the people are treading a tightrope of economic disaster. The SNP are taking the line that you should just trust us, after we win everyone will change their stance. Why? This reminds me of our current President who used the difficult situation that existed throughout the whole of the developed world, to suggest that his socialist policies would get over the problems without any of the people feeling that they were being squeezed. Of course it has fallen through the floor and the people who were promised so much now feel totally let down as he has no option but to raise taxes wherever he can. His popularity that last month hit the lowest ever recorded, has now dropped another two points. At least France has a currency that people are lending against, although their credit rating having dropped, it is now costing more. There are so many comparisons between the two countries and their leaders, but maybe the SNP do not want people to look outside the country. There was a small piece in the news here today about the Spanish view of Scotland's access to the EU. Summed up in one word it was no.
What happens if the Scots keep the pound and accept the Bank of England will control the money, but then the Banks of Scotland start giving better interest rates to take money to them? Danmörk and Sweden still use Krone and Krona. The new nations Bulgaria RúmenÃa cannot enter into Euro before 2017 Kroatia Hungary Czech Póland Litháen still use their old money.
Has anyone even stopped to consider the sudden loss of a Curling team to support at the Winter Olympics?! Horrifying.
I find this debate really interesting. Thanks for giving it a thread Harry. There are two points which I haven't seen anywhere much and would be interested in your collective comments. 1) if the vote is 'no' how will that affect English/Scottish relations? I can't believe things will just carry on as before. 2) there will be subtle and very quiet international pressure to prevent dis-union. There are many countries in the world, including Europe, that have regions that have aspirations for greater autonomy or independence. No one in power wants their legacy to be the dismemberment of the country they rule. Forget political freedom, economic sense etc. what we are dealing with is political ego. I personally believe that the nation state, as we have known it, is disappearing to be replace by smaller, regional units that will combine in confederations in the same way that nation states are now members of the EU. This will take time but I think the Scottish independence push is part of that process. If Scotland gets independence in 100 years London, Yorkshire, Cornwall and so on will want much greater autonomy than they have now. One final point. There will still be a United Kingdom, provided Scotland keeps the Queen as the head of state. The Kingdom will be United but the political institutions will not. This is where it gets interesting about the flag. The UK does not have a de jure flag, only a de facto one. The flag is linked to the monarch, not the country. The UK is unique in this.
Back to the beginnings of the country in other words - a full turn of the circle. They do say that history repeats itself, so you may well be right. If what I read in the press is true, it does seem that there is widening crack between the north & south of England, a great deal of disaffection with Westminster and the way it controls the purse strings. As to the 'no' vote issue - I doubt it will make too much difference as the majority will have spoken, and that's life. The only spanners in the works will be the stated funding reduction of £4bn and the likelihood of rushed legislation by Cameron's Crew to outlaw future referendums - either of those, or both, may cause a serious backlash.
Good debate as always It would be good to see the temeperature drop a little - on one side we have accusations of bullying a smaller neighbour and, on the other, accusations of a smaller neighbour holding the other to ransom. it's not healthy and the relationship after September, regardless of the result, threatens to be more rancorous than ever. On the big issue, i.e. the pound, I think Scotland should keep it in the event of independence. It would make life easier for all concerned, serve as a sign that we actually are still the closest of allies and, being a bit self serving and cynical, give Scotland less room to blame us in the event that everything goes wrong. I think i'd prefer the union to stay as I don't like the unkown but if that's what Scotland wants then they should have it. I do think it's absolutely essential that both sides are supportive of each other in the eevnt of a break up though - we'll both need each other to be as successful as they can be and shouldnlt really try to compete against each other as that could be incredibly counter productive. We can save the abuse and hatred for the football and rugby fields................
This is a referendum so the result isn't actually worth anything other than to poll general opinion. If the vote is No I it will be dropped for a while and I suspect there will be very little change. If the vote is Yes then is it possible that the issues that are being raised now will actually prevent the Scottish government from successfully managing the process, this would be the worst outcome as although the fault would likely be due to poor planning by the SNP it would cause large divisions politically and the currently relatively amicable relationship between the two peoples would likely degenerate.
If the Scots vote no will the Scottish Nationalist keep on like the Quebecois with shouting for another vote and another vote until they get what they want?
. I would imagine so yes - then again there's a few English people that seem very eager for them to have their own way so I suspect they'll keep shouting for it as well. I don't like Hockdude's scenario at all - hadn't even thought of it to be honest but that really would be a nightmare.
Why do the Scots hate the English so much? My answer would be the smaller relation always envies the larger one and is jealous of the success of the two together as they do not see their contribution as recognised completely. I am sure I am wrong.
As an Englishman who lives in the South East I have to wonder why the Scots don't like the English. I suspect like an awful lot of those outside the South East it is London and the South East they dislike. The problem has been growing for some time the South East has been exploiting Scotland, The North, the South West, Wales and Northern Ireland for centuries and not giving an awful lot back except poverty. it's got nothing to do with jealousy it has a lot to do with being exploited. I worry that if Scotland gains independence ( and I think they might by the way) the rest of us will be left to the ravages of the tories and their banker mates for many many years. So if Scotland get independence it'll be bye bye Kent for me and hello Scotland.
As an Englishman from the South East living in North East Scotland I have to say that we have it much better up here than the South East. We have beautiful countryside, relatively sparsely populated areas that give us space to breathe, good infrastructure, free prescriptions, free University education, no floods (well few), a surprisingly moderae climate usually with less rainfall than the South East (in the years I've lived here anyway), bigger and better houses etc etc.... Poverty!!! rubbish, I've lived in North Africa and South America there you see poverty, my gardener, security and maid each earned less than US$100 a month, even if I did also put a roof over their heads they were in fact well off by those societies standards but way way poorer than anybody (legally) in Scotland. My worry is that we see a polarisation, all joking aside on a societal level the English and Scotts get on brilliantly at least in my experience. My wife is Venezuelan and I'm intimate with the situation there at present and the danger is that populist government once in place proves itself to be inept at anything except blaming previous governments and neighbors and attacks the minorities within in the case of Scotland this could become the English. All this for what? Ego, nothing less. The expectation is for improvement under independence the reality will be increased taxation, decreased investment and a decline in living standards and it will be true to the SNP to successfully blame all of this on others and you just know the Scottish people will buy the story based on their Nationalist ambition, blinkered view.
I must admit I've never considered that the Scots hate us or vice versa. Admittedly some people from both sides take the good natured banter way too far and do get very very nasty with it but by and large I would say we get on great.
Okay I agree there are levels of poverty and deprivation - and I too have witness much worse in Africa and the Far East - but there are parts of Glasgow and Edinburgh where the beautiful mountains and Loch Lomond are mere dreams as there are parts of West Yorkshire, Cardiff, and yes even places like Redruth in Cornwall. The poverty in such places ( i have lived in all three in my time) is made even worse by the South East ignoring it and making sweeping statements about getting on yer bike and dole scroungers. My wife has relatives in the North East who really hate South East England because all they perceive is wealth being amassed in the London by bankers at their expense. Whether the South East wants to continue to ignore it or not it is there and the Scottish Independence bid is very much part of it.
