The coaching

Last night highlighted what a tactical master can achieve, hats off to Jose Mourinho.

It's clear our David is not in the same league and really has his hands well and truly full on the management side, probably beyond what he imagined.

I know it's been discussed previously about hanging onto Fergie's old staff and I said right at the start of the season I looked at our bench and got zero inspiration from the so called coaches he brought with him.

Fergie always had a good coach and right hand man, he was a million miles for being a tactician himself, from Archie Knox through Ricky Sbragia and Carlos Queroz to Rene Muellensteen(sp).

Moyes needs a top (top) drawer tactical genius at his side right now or he's ****ed. No amount of 'getting to the by line' will save him!

Th(o)(u)(g)hts?!?!

 

Moyes will never hire a coach who is anything other than a 'yes' man, as his ego wouldn't take it.

His current problem at United imo, is that he knows that the fanbase won't accept his default style & he's trying to get the side to play in a way that is alien to him.

He'd be better served doing what he did at our place, making you solid & tough to beat & then looking to develop the attacking style from there. At the minute you're caught between 2 stools.

 

Rene will be sacked soon. Bring him back?

 

I don't think we played particularly good football under him, do you?

The best coach we had was Quieroz, especially for Europe. Took us away from 4 4 2 so there was less flair but we were hard to beat and countered rapidly.

 

We had better players when he was there. Rene was there to get the current crop playing as well as they could.

 

That's a problem if we really believe that Moyes could never do what Maureen did yesterday ? at the end of it all there is no point bringing world class players if Moyes could be outfoxed by a better tactician at an important high pressure match.

By the way I think Maureen fooled Pelegrini into believing he would sit back and soak the pressure.

I said right at the outset when Moyes sacked the coaching staff that this was a terrible mistake and that he removed the last bit of continuity between the last successful season and the new one. When the players turned up at the club they found new people from the very top to the people coaching them on a daily basis. He certainly could do worse than bring back the likes of Carlos Queroz and Rene Muellensteen. But will his pride take it?

 

I think his pride will have to take it or else he'll be sacked at the end of this season, simple as that.

It's pretty obvious he needs a decent coach to provide some ideas and tactics. Did Fergie do the coaching? No, he didn't. Is the job the same size? Course it is so something has to give.

The muppets he brought from Everton are exactly that and Giggs and Neville are for the future only. People used to take the piss out of Mickey Phelan but the ones he brought with them are nodding dogs of the very highest order.

Quieroz is with Iran. Quick phone call could maybe sort that right out

 

I am beginning to think moyes is not the right man.

I can accept us not being as good as under fergie. I didn't expect us to be. But I didn't expect the current squad to be as bad as they are.

We should not be losing to the likes of Stoke, Sunderland, Newcastle etc etc.

We are so far off the pace it's shocking. If we don't beat Fulham I think he should do is all a favour an **** off.

 

I would go as far as to say if we lose to Fulham he'll be shown the door.

I think he needs help, that's the bottom line. The men he brought in aren't good enough and he needs to get it sorted. It's his job to do so, so if he doesn't address it and we continue to slide then he'll deserve the boot.

 

Steve Round is his right hand man, Neville is the first team coach though, assisted by Giggs. Do you want Neville to be shot then?

For what it's worth, I think you could have the best coach on the planet alongside him & it'd make little difference, as the team will play how he wants them to play & it's often been his in play decisions that have cost you this season.

 

I think you've hit it well on the head there Tobes.

We've gotten so used to attractive attacking football and never say die under SAF that Moyes feels pressured to deliver the same. He could (and indeed did) mastermind a fair few victories like Mourinho did last night, quite a few of them against City in recent years in fact. But he's trying to move away from that style, and it's going to take a bit of time.

I think depending on how the rest of this season goes he may reassess in the summer and look to go back to basics to try and get the results first, style second.

Not sure if changing coaches will help tbh. Mourinho has surrounded himself with yes men who are an even less experienced and recognised bunch of coaches than Moyes has, and it hasn't really hindered him that much. Someone like Rene or Queroz might help him, but then it may just encourage him to go defensive that much sooner.

 

Can't recall saying I wanted any of them shot, just that Moyes needs a good coach to work alongside him. That still applies.

As does the bit about where if he's too stubborn to take that on board then he will, deservedly, be sacked as the current team is not cutting it and I can't see any way it'll improve without some high quality coaching.

 

Give Steve Clarke a new job. Very good coach, and he's Scottish.

I know his strengths are working with the defence. However, he's very good at teaching teams to build strong attacks from defensive positions. A good solid coach imo.

 

I am now of the opinion that David Moyes could take over at Barca and f@#k it up within months. The man simply doesn't have the pedigree for the job and his tactical uncertainty and lack of self-confidence at this level is affecting the on the field performances of the world-class players in our squad.

How many other top teams would be plundering mid-table teams to provide a new manager - Real, Barca, Bayern - no. All this crap is of SAF's doing. He alone nominated Moyes as his chosen successor - but on what basis, what were the traits that Fergie saw in him that aren't there now. Fergie was way too close to Moyes to make this important decision alone, it should have been left to a group decision rather than one man picking his best golfing pal. Let's face it, if the Glazers had chosen anyone else, what's the worst that would have happened - Fergie would have gone off in a big grump and we wouldn't be seeing him sucking his teeth in the stands at each match - no bad thing it would seem.

I would love to know what the Glazers etc really think of Moyes appointment, and not the crap the press office pump out each day.

Bottom line, the manager is out of his depth, his coaching staff are crap, the tactics are crap and all the negativity is getting to the team and unsettling the dressing room - and once that happens, there can only be one outcome.

 

The deed is done. Fergie must have seen something in him. I don't subscribe to the (far fetched) theory that Fergie wanted a manager who wouldn't surpass him and who would show him (fergie) in a good light. No one builds a team and a club over 26 years to hand it to someone to destroy it...

What Fergie has seen in Moyes no one is quite sure but I would say let's give him a chance. The sacking after 1 bad season is counterproductive and would lead to repeat hasty impatient sackings in the future.

This season proved beyond doubt (if there was any) that Fergie was the soul of the team. Without him it is totally different even with exactly the same players. So this is the brand new team, needing brand new players. let's hope that the greedy Gs put their hands in their pockets because it is going to be very expensive to be put right.

 

I think that's indisputable. Everyone knew that his mere presence added a few % to United performances, but I don't think anyone realised it was quite as much as it's shown to be this season.

In fairness to the Glazers they've backed him with £65m in a little over half a season, I think he's got to start getting results now or he'll face the chop.

I've said all along that the minute it looks like CL is beyond your reach, they'll replace him either immediately or at the seasons end. Failure to make top 4 would be deemed unacceptable to the Shermans imo.

 

I think people underestimate just how good SAF was tactically. He was very good at nullifying an opponents star player in big games, and was also very good at making substitutes to turn games around.

The Carlos Querez's have come and gone, yet we still carried on winning under SAF. So I don't buy that SAF wasn't the brains behind our tactics.

In the last few years under SAF, we probably weren't able to sign the quality of players that Chelsea and City have been able to, yet SAF still kept us top most of the time.

He was getting the better of teams that had better players, so to say he wasn't tactically brilliant, is beyond me, as I really don't see how that can be the case.

I don't think Moyes is to bad tactically, I just think we need to give him time to get the players he wants, and more importantly get rid of a lot of the dross we have in the squad.

No I don't think he'll ever be as good as Fergie, but there isn't a manager out there as good as Fergie, so we've just got to keep faith with Moyes until atleast the end of next season

 

Fergie's main strength was as a man manager and he also had a football philosophy, an idea of how he wanted the game to be played.

The fine detail though he allowed his coaching staff their lead. Definitely, 100% certain this is the case.

Coaching and deciding the team and substitutions are two entirely different things. He also listened to his right hand men and coaches, the Kidd's, McClarens and the previous men I mentioned. Moyes, at least on the face of it, doesn't seem to.

He had to, the size of the job in managing Manchester United meant he had to. There is no way he was out there in every coaching session.

 

Fergie was a one off and built a premiership winning team and squad despite being the 4th highest spending club. Maureen as good as he is had to spend big and still aiming to spend big. Moyes without having as big a budget as the big two (and I would argue he needs a much bigger one to catch up) has absolutely no chance.

The greedy Gs have no choice: Big spending= a chance of recovery. No big spending = value of club, sponsorship deals down the pan.

At the moment, Moyes has to scrap for every victory. He just cannot take any win for granted like Fergie would have done playing at OT or playing away against minnows. It is high time people realise this is now a new ball game.

 

Im not really convinced that much alteration to coaches would be able to make much of a difference, to me I think the team is performing as well as it did last year without the cutting edge and clinical nature, injuries havent helped but without RVP banging in the goals last year we would not have won the leauge remember how many goals we gave away. Change of manager and coaches hasnt helped but I think had moyes had a fully fit RVP for the whole season we woulp probably be level on points with liverpool at least, too often we have needed someone to bag the one or two good opportunities we have had in some games e.g. newcastle, everton, spurs games at home