This thread is not so much a discussion of the current state of play with Andy Carroll or where he will end up but more of a commentary on how this has been handled. So I'd like to set out a few points I think are salient here. Rodgers stated he'd never talk about someone else's player. He has not thus far but I'd have expected that would have been extended to his own players. I must be mistaken. The trust between a manager and playing staff is hard to build and very easy to break Clubs like Newcastle and west ham are like piranha. They have dodgy owners who love the small of blood and will chance their arm. They sense a weakness and want us to pay his wages while they take the player. Frankly i was surprised Rodgers made the statement he did and has not since done anything to lessen the impact. So for the past week a transfer saga has been building momentum and unfortunately will rumble on until August 31. I am still at a loss as to how to explain this in a positive light and thought that if a player were to be sold that the player and agent would be talked to first and some private contacts opened up via said agent to other clubs. I simply cannot see any positive benefit to LFC at all by having this very public and most likely drawn out sale process. I am also surprised that a player who, no matter what the opinion one way or the other is, represents a massive investment (gamble) by your club is not even afforded a preseason return and in house discussions before he was told he had to go. I think myself the only thing i can say for sure is Andy Carroll and his agent have been very quiet and professional about it and that's a good thing in his own favor. My opinion is that any deal should be done quickly but there are no immediate takers so i can only see this rumbling on and becoming a bone of contention at every interview ala tevez (for different reasons obviously but the media will be the same) and we will suffer for it. I don't see how this process will maximise return on the player either. I think finally clubs will smell weakness now and make derisory offers to test the waters. We paid half cole's wages at least in lille, will we do the same with carroll now? What do you guys think of the general process adopted, has it just happened that way or is it deliberate? What do you think the outcome will be?
So the Telegraph ask if Andy will go out on loan and Brendan replies with: "I'm not going to sit here and say I will never let anyone go on loan, then come in here in two weeks and a player's gone, and you're saying 'you said you wouldn't let them go'.There are many things to going on loan. Is it going to be beneficial for the club, that's the most important thing? Sometimes a player going out on loan - in general, not just Andy - can benefit the club in the long term. It gets them game experience, and they come back a better player, a more confident one. Certainly more so than if they've been sitting on the bench for the majority of the season. Andy's always going to be linked with clubs, whether he was here or not. I have spoken to him on his holidays, he knows exactly where he stands, but I have had no inquiries about him." Been blown slightly out of proportion imho
maybe so but we've gone from a statement regarding an ac Milan director saying carroll is good to this response to a media frenzy to the spivs at west ham using him to get publicity to it seems Newcastle actually flying a kite with us to see what the story is. Its got legs of its own so how can it be stopped? does rodgers accept a climb down and looking less that in control in the process or does he say nothing and hope a bigger story surfaces? does the club get andy to say he's going nowhere and the manager talked to him ages ago and its all media rubbish? do we just play him in the us and show he fits in? not sure what we'll do honestly.. its got legs as they say so we'll see.
I'm sure Rodgers will continue to do exactly what he had intended to do with Carroll, regardless of the media frenzy.
I do wonder if BR has been told he has to make most of his transfer money from player sales so Carroll seems to be the player in the squad who we could possibly afford to lose if we could get between £15m and £20m to spend on maybe two other players. We don't really have any other non-full-time-first team player who could create that sort of money.
I agree. the question i have is whats the outcome. It is unlike say lescott at everton where moyes decided come what may he was staying so it ruined his whole preseason and everton flopped. yet surely this has the potential to create doubt and unrest when rodgers needs to be doing business and wokring with the team. the questions still are is it intentional to get carroll move don or has it just happened and in either case what is the outcome likely to be.
In modern parlance this whole thing has gone 'viral' and the consequences are unknown. MITO is right in that the whole thing is going to rumble on and on and not just until the start of the season. Apart from Rodgers, Carroll, his agent and a few others in the club, nobody really knows what Rodgers real opinion of Andy Carroll is or what our owners directions are in terms of their investment. The rest truly is speculation. We can debate ad infinitum if Carroll is merely Plan B, can be an effective player in a new system, or if we should try and off-load him. However, only time will tell.
tbh, we're as guilty as speculating here as the press - I have myself questioned whether AC would fit into BR's set up - well before any transfer rumour.....and many here have commented either way on it. What matters most is that both the manager and player have discussed this and AC's future is clear. BR seems like a players coach, I doubt very much that he's leave AC hanging out to dry......whatever or wherever his future lay. However much I'd like the Anfield hierarchy to call me with everything that's going on, I won't hold my breath... so will have to accept until it is fundamentally proven otherwise, that everything is being handled properly and professionally.
Therein (bold) lies the problem. It is not that there is a problem for LFC in this matter, but a problem for the fans. The only people who know what is going to happen are those at the club, and there are positive spins on both sides of the coin. The fact is: The longer they draw out any sort of loan deal from happening, the higher Andy's stock rises. They have already started testing the water as to how much we want for him, how much of his wages will be paid etc.. and the only statement we have been given a go on is that the newcastle offer has been categorically denied. Now, we could look into that and see that it being denied (on a sunday... out of office hours) less than 12 hours from the initial offer means we are not looking to sell/loan him out at this present time, or the offer was absolute crap. Rodgers' has given just enough info about Carroll to keep him in the media spotlight, the fact is... he's playing the media and premier league managers simultaneously by putting out those sort of statements. The offers will come rolling in... leading to a number of positive possibilities such as... 1, If we get a good offer, he's sold and we don't need to worry about him anymore. 2, If we don't get a good offer, we flatly refuse it and move on. 3, If we get a good loan offer: We either loan him out, thus proving that was always the case. Or we keep hold of him, thus proving Rodgers sees him as part of the team next season. 4, If we don't get a good loan offer: We flatly refuse it, and move on. I can't really see any negatives in this, can you? All Rodgers is doing, is keeping his options open. Which, considering the fact that he hasn't yet had time to assess Carroll, is a good move. Also, as a side note: This is all media driven, started from a rumour to AC Milan, and now it's just come to light that Aston Villa want in. A rather large step in the gulf of quality journalism there I feel.
Well said. As Dave has mentioned on other threads, Rodgers wasn't 100% clear about what he said in those interviews and are open to interpretation. If we can't get any buyers, then Rodgers can come out and say he never wanted to sell AC in the first place.
Brendan Rogers is obviously going to try with Liverpool, to implement the same pass & move system he had at Swansea and Andy Carroll isn't that type of player, never will be. There's also others that won't fit into that system such as Downing who doesn't have the ability, but then there's some who will thrive in that type of system such as Charlie Adam, Suarez, Lucas, Maxi (even though he's left) and probably Jordan Henderson. Rogers is probably being ruthless with Carroll because he desperately wants his wages off the books and money to spend on players who will fit into his ideas. Andy Carroll was probably worth £35m in Kenny's vision of putting a world class pacey CF up front with a powerhouse, but in Rogers' system he's worth pennies because all he would ever be is a 5 minute player who'd be sent on to try and save the game when you're a goal down and he's resorted to hoofball.
You mean the pass and move that we played last season that Carroll seemed to fit quite well towards the end? At the end of the day, football is football whether you're passing and moving or hoofing the ball up to a striker and if you've got a good footballer then he'll adapt. If he can't adapt, you move him on. Carroll is a good footballer, and the fact is.. he offers a lot more simply being on the pitch than a lot of strikers do by scoring goals. He opens up play for other players, defenders talk about Carroll being hard to defend against - sure he is, which is why you often see 2 defenders on him at the same time, which is 2 less defenders in open play against someone else.
I don't get why people are saying Adam will do well in this system, surely he will be one of the struggling ones, he cannot run for **** therefore doesn't provide much pressure, his defending is truly awful and he doesn't look for short tidy effective passes. He would rather go for the hollywood ball and usually fails 9 times out of 10
The negative i see is that other players can be putt off us as it looks form afar like carrolls been given the short end of the stick... but then from afar he doesn't look like he performed either. the other negative is it can be distracting and the press might decide to rack the pressure up on rodgers by asking him every conference. I don't really see much beenfit to the club form the public side as all i see so far is schisters, on the cheap clubs and such trying it on to get him cheap. I don't know... its all up in the air right bow but i think it will be a sga by the time its over.
Well, effectively, what is written in the press is just another fans view. It is written by an individual journalist that is entitled to their own opinion (but have to be careful in what they actually write in case of comebacks) and once one says it it becomes a snowball effect, just like in these sort of forums. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of football journalists sit talking on football forums a lot of the time and pick stories from peoples suggestions/opinions
I think that BR is setting out his stall with the media. After a great start to joining the club and lots of plaudits for saying the correct things at the right time he may feel he got a little to closely identified personally with the Gylfi transfer and its been a shot across his bows and maybe a warning of the dangers of implying to much and the benefit of keeping your counsel. He may even feel that the press stories that were generated from his comments about having worked with him before in some way influenced other clubs desire to make better speculative offers. I am wondering if he is prepared to put up with the media hearsay, having reassured AC personally that there is nothing in it and explaining some of his plans, and is trying to reestablish the behind closed doors philosophy. He knows football is a fluid profession and is being more circumspect than previously. The papers will be talking about a non event and, over time, maybe won’t speculate quite so readily in the future just because we haven't emphatically stated something or other. If so I hope he has considered the downside as well, which is the clubs fans being concerned, though have to agree we are as bad as the press as we seem to want categorical denials (as well as stuff done behind closed doors) and when not getting them maybe read too much into it. I would like to think the press would be grown up enough to accept they are propagating the story and filling up column inches based on little from us, though somehow I worry they will blame their false speculation on us not being frank with them not that they would have any right to.
The embarrassment began when Carroll was offered to City at executive level. Now Newcastle have offered some paltry deal we have to reject. AC appears to prefer a reluctant loan, probably thinking Rodgers may not last and he'd rather be a Liverpool player than a West Ham one. We could end up in a situation where we've made our bed and there's some rocks in it we have to lie in, with a player the manager can't offload acceptably but wont play, or whose confidence is too shot to be worth playing. Toshack [6'1"] scored a bunch of goals with pass and move. The thing is you pass it and you move until you get to the other end of the pitch, then, as Lord Bob once said, "Just stick in the net and we'll discuss your options later."
good points there... i'd forgotten about the city approach by us which i believe city let out just to laugh at us. The point about us feeding the press frenzy by being the guys on the other side of the supply/demand equation that means any old trash will sell as long as its got lfc in the headline.
