1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

Off Topic Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Southampton' started by ChilcoSaint, Feb 23, 2016.

  1. Schad

    Schad Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2011
    Messages:
    17,837
    Likes Received:
    13,160
    Christopher Rufo isn't some brave truth-seeker. He's the guy that claimed Disney was "grooming children with radical sexual propaganda" because one of their films included a gay character, and was the primary voice behind the CRT nonsense. He freely admits -- brags, really -- that his goal is to take niche/nonexistent issues, and blow them up into massive panics that can be used as a cudgel for a whole range of culture war issues:



    If your brave search for truth leads you to Chris Rufo, it's time to start over. He is a propagandist. He's super-happy to tell everyone what a good propagandist he is. He has zero interest in truth.
     
    #37321
    Archers Road likes this.
  2. Gregm1988

    Gregm1988 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2019
    Messages:
    7,220
    Likes Received:
    4,298
    The approach he is taking certainly worked in America with "Socialism". So it's not surprising he is giving it a try
     
    #37322
    Archers Road likes this.
  3. Ian Thumwood

    Ian Thumwood Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2011
    Messages:
    3,771
    Likes Received:
    3,438

    It is staggering how rife this kind of behaviour is. You sense that some of the people who have been successful in business are never satisfied with the wealth they will have. The Mirror is right to flag this up yet most of the newspaper's today seem to be laying in to Mick Lynch due to the rail strike which is taking place to ensure that wages keep up with inflation and to retain the services necessary to keep the trains functioning. As someone who has cause touse trains from time to time, i think Mick Lynch is correct yet the press seems keen to cast him as a pantomine villain as opposed to looking at the issue of people who continue to exploit others to accrue excessive wealth.

    I never watch breakfast TV but understand that Lynch was dealt with disrespectfully in an interview yesterday which resulted in him losing his cool because the questions were framed in the context that the unions were guilty in some respect. I don't see this argument ever being put to the train operators and I also do not see more pertinent questions being put to unions leaders such as why trade union membership remains so low within the private sector. For me, this is the one question I would like to see asked - not why are you on strike but why have unions not made inroads with those working outside the public sector. If there is any "failing" on the unions, it is the fact that so few workers feek they need to be belong to them and the negative perception of unions by some employers. This is the kind of question where Mick Lynch needs his feet held to the fire.
     
    #37323
  4. San Tejón

    San Tejón Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2014
    Messages:
    16,163
    Likes Received:
    21,326
    #37324
  5. San Tejón

    San Tejón Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2014
    Messages:
    16,163
    Likes Received:
    21,326
    At the risk of incurring a certain poster’s wrath, the reason why Mick Lynch is being cast as pantomime villain, by the press, is because the large majority of the press supports the Tory party and will do whatever they can to demonise unions, or anyone/anything that stands against the Tory party.
    Lynch actually called the BBC out, yesterday, for parroting a right wing agenda and effectively just asking him about things written in the right wing press.
    The disrespect shown to him was, from what I saw, by Richard Madeley, an appallingly inept interviewer at the best of times, who has a Piers Morgan complex, in as much as everything should centre around him and not the debate.
    With regards to low union membership, this is another thing that was engineered by government. Union fees were always taken from the wages, by the employers, and forwarded to the unions. This practice has now ended, which means that those who want to join a union have to set up a DD or Standing Order, which some can’t be bothered to do.
    Then you also have to include the anti union feelings that have festered as a result of them ALWAYS being painted as being in the wrong, by the media and government. This has an impact on those being asked to join.
    It is also more difficult for unions to take action, because of the rules they have to comply with, in order to go on strike.
    The midwives, in England, have just voted on strike action and polled 94% in favour of striking, BUT because fewer than 50% took part in the vote the result is invalid.
    Midwives in Wales ARE striking because they passed the threshold.
    I watched the ITV news, early evening yesterday, and the first part was all about empty train stations and talking to people who were being inconvenienced.
    I didn’t see them talk to anyone who took the view that the RMT were right to make a stand, or someone who recognises that the strike(s) is/are being driven by the government’s intransigence, in another attempt to distract from the mess they have made with the country’s economy.
     
    #37325
  6. San Tejón

    San Tejón Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2014
    Messages:
    16,163
    Likes Received:
    21,326

  7. Libby

    Libby Derby County, we're coming for you

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2011
    Messages:
    84,158
    Likes Received:
    88,575
    Feels good to be unemployed and away from the NHS.

    A broken broken organisation that is destined to underperform regardless of funding. Working in two Trusts over the past 5 years has completely broken my faith in the system.

    For every hero there's 3 blaggers stealing a living and nobody seems to care enough to change it sadly.
     
    #37327
  8. It'sOnlyAGame

    It'sOnlyAGame Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2017
    Messages:
    3,668
    Likes Received:
    7,530
    Unions lost their effectiveness from the moment the big industrial companies either moved out or closed down. Membership must be a fraction of what it was in the 1970's and 80's. So it's no surprise that the me, me attitude of today's society have no solidarity. Even back then there were plenty of working people who despised unions and saw Thatcher's reforms as long overdue, even if it would also affect them at some later stage. I worked at a company where all the workforce had good working conditions and were well paid, all negotiated by the unions but still people moaned about them. Some of them had worked there since leaving school and it was quite a shock to them that not all companies were the same (especially non-unionised) when it closed in the early 2000's.

    Don't forget that Blair didn't rescind any of Thatcher's reforms when he became PM, so not just the Tories. In some ways I despised Blair more than Thatcher, she and Tebbit were quite openly anti trade union and you knew what to expect. Blair, on the other hand claimed to be an ally, took the union donations and their votes but kept Tory reforms.
     
    #37328
  9. Osvaldorama

    Osvaldorama Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2011
    Messages:
    14,799
    Likes Received:
    14,157
    Yep. I was very very much against privatising it… until I worked in it.

    Now I don’t know how best to solve it, all I know is it’s totally totally broken
     
    #37329
    Libby likes this.
  10. Puck

    Puck Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2012
    Messages:
    5,610
    Likes Received:
    2,521
    Based on my experience that sounds very much like the public sector in general. Inevitable really when it's virtually impossible to get sacked.

    We should look around Europe. I haven't done detailed research but as an example I hear the French healthcare system is very good. I also work with an Italian guy who thinks the NHS is dreadful and laughs at the way British people talk about it. I've also heard Ukrainians astonished that people have to wait to see doctors here.

    Whenever anyone criticises the NHS you get the same old rubbish talked about underfunding and how we'll end up with American healthcare if we don't "protect" the NHS. There's no reason that has to be the case. The truth is many other countries have different (and I'm sure better) healthcare systems.
     
    #37330
  11. Gregm1988

    Gregm1988 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2019
    Messages:
    7,220
    Likes Received:
    4,298
    In theory there is no reason why we would end up with the US system. But in practice that is what is most likely given any replacement will be overseen by the Tories. Why would they copy the French , German, Canadian , Scandinavian (insert any more naturally liberal country here) system? They’d implement one that would make themselves / their friends / their donors rich(er). Which is the American one
     
    #37331
  12. Puck

    Puck Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2012
    Messages:
    5,610
    Likes Received:
    2,521
    Baseless, partisan nonsense.

    The Conservative party isn't going to do anything to the NHS except exempt it from spending cuts. It's a party with no principles whose main aim is to achieve office, which is why post-Blair it's generally adopted Labour policies (sometimes watered down). The Conservative party is scared of the NHS as an issue because, although some of them recognise it's a financial black hole, the majority of the British people have a weird relationship with the NHS. Any meaningful reform to healthcare in this country would be presented as some sort of betrayal and would guarantee the next election would be lost. Unless the public attitude to the NHS changes drastically then if any real changes are ever to be made (I doubt they will be) that will either have to be done by the Labour party or some other new party, should one emerge.
     
    #37332
    thereisonlyoneno7 likes this.
  13. Gregm1988

    Gregm1988 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2019
    Messages:
    7,220
    Likes Received:
    4,298
    I didn’t say a replacement would definitely happen under the Tories. But Labour aren’t going to replace the NHS. So in the hypothetical scenario that is does get replaced (not changed or reformed, replaced) it will be the conservatives that do it. No matter how unlikely. Now you can certainly claim it is so unlikely that it isn’t even worth discussing. That is certainly an opinion.

    But assuming it does - I’d say my original statement applies. Indeed your claim about them not having principles of their own makes it even more likely they would just copy america if looking for a replacement. It’s what we do as a country in general.
     
    #37333
  14. San Tejón

    San Tejón Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2014
    Messages:
    16,163
    Likes Received:
    21,326
    Johnson in “breaks rules he brought in” shock. Not.

    BORIS Johnson pocketed more than £750,000 for three speeches he made last month.

    He looks to have broken his own Ministerial Code by accepting paid work too soon after leaving office.

    Mr Johnson got £277,723.89 for speaking to investment bankers in New York, while the Hindustan Times paid him £261,652.34 for a speech in New Delhi, India.

    Portuguese TV channel Televisao Independente paid £215,275.98 for a speech at a CNN Global Summit.Mr Johnson has joined the Harry Walker speaking agency, who line up lucrative gigs for him.

    Parliament’s second jobs watchdog, Acoba, reminded him last week the rules require him to wait three months to take paid work after leaving office. The speeches took place less than three months after September 6, his last day.

    He is still living rent-free in a cottage owned by Conservative Party mega-donor Lord Bamford, saving himself £3,500 a month.
     
    #37334
  15. Libby

    Libby Derby County, we're coming for you

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2011
    Messages:
    84,158
    Likes Received:
    88,575
    Yeah it's completely ****ed and I agree with your sentiments completely. Still think I'm a against privatisation as a whole but would probably support it for non clinical services such as IT, telecoms, projects etc.

    Regardless a conversation absolutely needs to happen about the NHS and what its future is.

    Yeah the not being sacked thing is a classic. Can't upset people who are under performing and only working 2 hours a day just in case it affects their wellbeing - The wellbeing of those trying to make change and improve things doesn't matter of course.

    Completely agree with your other point as well. Find it baffling how so many people refuse to acknowledge that it's an extremely wasteful service and pretend politicians are its only problem. We'll see it on this thread no doubt soon enough (probably from posters who will ignore this conversation).
     
    #37335
  16. StJabbo1

    StJabbo1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2019
    Messages:
    10,851
    Likes Received:
    12,855
    #37336
  17. Le Tissier's Laces

    Le Tissier's Laces Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2011
    Messages:
    43,022
    Likes Received:
    48,943
    Exhibit one…

     
    #37337
  18. StJabbo1

    StJabbo1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2019
    Messages:
    10,851
    Likes Received:
    12,855
    #37338
  19. StJabbo1

    StJabbo1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2019
    Messages:
    10,851
    Likes Received:
    12,855
    Here's the job description, better read and commented on than a twitter post.
    https://www.healthjobsuk.com/job/UK...S_Foundation_Trust/Director/Director-v4828381
    "Main duties of the job
    The successful candidate will be highly skilled and experienced in lived experience practice with significant experience working strategically, and with a good understanding of organisational complexities within the NHS and a willingness to work collaboratively within this setting. They will have personal experience of life-altering health condition(s), with considerable use of secondary health services, in which they have experienced significant power imbalances."
     
    #37339
  20. Libby

    Libby Derby County, we're coming for you

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2011
    Messages:
    84,158
    Likes Received:
    88,575
    Who'll no doubt have the authority to pluck band 6 posts out of their arse and give them to people who 'deserve' them.
     
    #37340

Share This Page