Off Topic Political Debate

We should not forget that many of the councils only had one third of the seats up for election. If all seats had been up for grabs, then the carnage for the Tories would probably have been far worse. If you look at the actual results then the Tories lost most of their councillors from the shires, the areas where they are traditionally strong. Those voters did not transfer their votes to Labour, but to the LibDems, Greens and Independents. One can only speculate as London did not have elections, but just what sort of kicking would the councillors there have had if the vote was about Brexit rather than local matters? Now that people know what leaving the EU actually means, we see the reaction of them saying no thank you. To say that they must not change their minds is simply not realistic.

 

has there been an official turnout declared yet ? that really tells how informed the poll is or isn’t , i suspect that most brexit fans didn’t vote , and ardent remainers voted for the avowedly remain groups , the slimy libs or earnest greens ...

 

Tonight Ian Duncan Smith, the failed and dishonest leader of the Tory party for two years, has called for the PM to resign immediately, or if she will not, calls for her to be removed. This brings into sharp focus the problems with what is brexit. Is it the IDS version, the May version, or even the Corbyn version. Right from the referendum it was never defined, and meant many different things to different people. It can be little wonder that the population have taken the version that suits them most, but as we now see the majority no longer believe that any version will be good for them and the country. It is little wonder that commentators from around the world wonder how a country could have got itself into such a mess.

 

I haven't seen an exact figure yet, but it was about the same as last time, 35%. Our main Brexit fan on this board tells us that he did vote Tory, but he will not do so at a EU election. It would seem that the longer Corbyn continues to ignore his membership he will also lead the party nowhere. No way should he have been losing ground with the government in meltdown.

 

I have to laugh when the Lib Dems get slated for pursuing a second vote agenda. The first rule for any party is to follow the wishes of its members and voters. Does anyone know a Lib Dem voter who voted to leave? I certainly don't.

 

The LibDems made remaining in the EU their main policy at the last general election. The public rejected them in favour of pro Brexit parties that had their best vote share in decades. The short term success the LDs achieved this week was merely the result of some protest votes and stay at home Brexit voters. There is widespread anger at parts of our establishment who have reneged on the clear wishes of the people to leave the EU. This has undoubtedly led to reduced confidence in our democratic processes.

Due to failing to leave the EU on the designated date It has been relatively easy for Nigel Farage, the most influential politician in the U.K. for the last decade, to instantly create a new anti EU party. The Brexit party will probably end up as the largest U.K. group in the European Parliament, hopefully joining the predicted hordes of eurosceptic MPs from other dissatisfied member states. I'm sure Nige will let the EU Parliament know about the growing contempt many UK citizens have for Brussels.

 

Why is it SH. that when something goes your way it is 'The clear wishes of the people' yet when it doesn't you call it a 'protest' vote ? Could it not just be that the referendum itself was nothing more than a protest vote ie. against the establishment in general ?

 

Still living in the past SH. Things have moved on since your party had its majority removed. As I said previously the widening in the gap between leave and remain has grown dramatically over the past three months, not years, but months. You need to face up to the fact that your interpretation of what Brexit means is not being sought, and as of today it is being reported that a different one, ie Labour type, is being discussed. If you look across Europe you can see people are fed up with the old, tired, main parties, and are looking towards the smaller ones that at least offer something different. Even in the complex political situation that exists in Northern Ireland it was the smaller parties making ground, with the Alliance party making the most headway.

 

Across Europe the main political change is the people are increasingly critical of Brussels and are electing those ready to oppose Macron's silly idea of 'more Europe'.

You have completely misjudged the present situation on Brexit. It is only the PM and her senior remainer advisers seeking a woolly compromise with Labour. Most Tories and many Labour voters are livid with this half in proposal which gives the remainers some hope of reversing the democratic decision taken by the people of the UK.

 

The specific referendum result was a clear instruction to leave, ratified several times by parliament. The recent local election incorporated a protest vote and was also clearly the will of the people on that day. If the Tory and Labour voters had not shown their disapproval of the delay in Brexit the LibDem vote would have been it's usual irrelevant norm.

 

Of course you can read anything into election results - how do you know that Tory and Labour voters were showing their disapproval at the delay of Brexit ? Bearing in mind that the biggest winners were 2 parties who have had an absolutely unequivocal opposition to any kind of Brexit - just as the people themselves do. You can go prattling on about the will of the people until you are blue in the face but the 'will of the people' now is more relevant than their decision 3 years ago.

 

You are completely overlooking the fact that people are saying by a large and increasing majority that they do not want Brexit in whatever form it takes. That is the view expressed on Thursday last week in actual votes, confirming what every poll indicates. One Tory on Thursday complained that many of their local associations now had less than 10 members, and admitted that they were no longer representative of the wider population. You only need to look around and see that some councils who had only ever returned Tories are now changing. Read why people voted LibDem in the ward that Rees-Mogg lives in, and you will find they reject Brexit, not that they want to get on with it. There is genuine anger amongst some that they are being misrepresented in this way.
Lovely thought that Moggy now has a LibDem council.

 

What was expressed in the local elections was a frustration at the delay in Brexit. The millions of voters who will support Farage's new party at the European elections clearly shows their annoyance. I'm surprised you have not canvassed the bread queue again this week.

 

Would you like to provide some actual evidence why a frustrated Tory would vote for a Green or LibDem who are completely opposed to leaving the EU? Not just your opinion, but actual evidence.

 

I am not suggesting they did. There was a big swing from Labour to Lib Dem and the Tories stayed at home or were mainly responsible for the 30,000 damaged papers.

 

I see the Hornbot has started up again with the same old rhetoric... Pointless discussing with him... [emoji6]

Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk

 

Tambourine man this is a forum where people are usually allowed to disagree. I know it goes against the clique's rules to oppose Remain and the left / wishy washies.

 

Whilst on your last theme - does it do anything at all for society, or for any political cause, to take the trouble of going to a polling booth purely in order to damage a voting paper ? No party ever has a complete correlation to your own views (this applies even to party members) but voting is about choosing between those on offer. Willfull damaging of this type achieves no end whatsoever, nor does it make any political point other than that the person who does it is behaving like a child.

 

What have you got against tambourines ?

 

Only those played by strange people from the North.