Penalties

lol told ya

 

I thought the Allen penalty was fair & I thought Reid got a touch on the ball when he tackled Shelvey. Guess I am in the minority here though.

 

Talk to the hand...bitches

 

I think both decisions were correct too although I do think the handball by Allen was very harsh on the lad, there was no way he could react and move his hand in time. Still a penalty because his hand is up and it blocks the shot at goal

 

Oh come on, there's a difference of 'starfishing' and making yourself deliberately bigger to block a shot and having your arms in a natural position when ou stretch forward on one leg in a legitimate attempt to get the ball. It's like a sliding takle if you accidentally touch the ball (or, more to the point, the ball touches your arm). There's supposed to be intent or recklessness in a foul. Neither of which were apparent in Allen's attempted block.

 

Have they changed the rules while I was asleep?
I thought you got penalised for "deliberate handball"?

 

don't like this intent or deliberate rule, as it varies big style from the various refs interpretation of the word, or when it suits them more to the point.

 

Indeed, the woolly Law 12. Which refers to 'deliberate' handball, but fails to specify what that is.

The referees association view it as whether the hands are in a natural or unatural position at the point of impact.

Clear as mud.

 

There are clearly different rules for handballs. Players get booked for 'deliberate handball' and sent off if it 'prevents a goal or goal scoring opportunity' too. I think the hand ball rule can also come under 'was an advantage gained' and this is where I think the Allen hand ball becomes a penalty, we clearly gained an advantage because it stopped a shot that was possible on target. It didn't prevent a goal because there was still a keeper and few other defenders to beat

 

that is normally the case but I personally don't believe Allen's arm was in an unnatural position. It was still quite close to his body ...

 

Although I disagree about his arm being close to his body (it is stuck out and his hand is up high and about a foot away from his head), I am not saying it wasn't a natural position. I am saying that, whether he meant to or not, he stop a goal bound shot and if it had been anywhere else on the pitch it would have been a freekick and no one would be complaining etc

 

But Joe was leaning away from it so his arms are likely to be near his head - it's a natural movement. It woud have been very difficult trying to block a shot, leaning away with your arms by your side.

 

As I said, I don't think it was intentional but I think there was an advantage gained by it

 

This. And also the refs guidance says to look for the direction of movement of the hand towards the ball. If you watch the replay, when Allen is about five yards away his right arm is by his side, then as he moves to block it swings up and into a position between the ball and the goal. Which under the rules counts as moving the arm into a position where it could block the shot, ergo a penalty.

It is very harsh to players who are simply using their arm to balance, but imo it's the only fair way to judge. Otherwise you could have a defender go to block a shot, turn their head away and wildly flail their arms around to block the ball, and then just say "my arms weren't in an unnatural position, I was just trying to keep from falling over. I was looking away so it wasn't deliberate". With the current interpretation, all defenders are restricted to keeping their arms down no matter how they make a block.

 

What are penalties?

 

Things that you used to get regularly when Stevie starfish was left in control of 'winning' them

 

Who is this person of whom you speak?

 

Here's a fine example of his work;

http://soccerlens.com/gerrards-dive-against-blackburn/37834/

 

It's difficult to judge. We can't have refereeing by numbers, whereby any contact between ball and hand is deemed an offence, therefore, like so many things, it comes down to the individual opinion of the ref at the time.
Personally, I thought that one was extremely harsh- it could easily have been waved away as ball to hand.
But it's done, it won't be the last controversial decision that goes go for us or against us, so time to move on.
It didn't affect the eventual outcome of the game, so just another brickbat for us to throw at refs.

 

It was a tough penalty that one, due to the distance between ball & hand combined with the pace of the shot.

It's always a tough one for the ref & he'll always have to use his gut instinct, so therefore if it's Suarez he'll point straight to the spot