1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

Off Topic Olympics

Discussion in 'Liverpool' started by Zanjinho, Jul 14, 2024.

?

Keep, delete or merge

  1. Keep

  2. Delete

  3. Merge

  4. Who gives a ****

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. johnsonsbaby

    johnsonsbaby Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2011
    Messages:
    22,434
    Likes Received:
    12,059
    You've said that my examples of what causes division aren't your definition of divisive and then gone on to describe exactly what happens when someone who wants to display a national symbol is told they can't: us versus them.

    The second bit about the religious aspects speaks to culture and tradition slowly being erased. While the monarch is still the head of the CofE, we will continue to be a Christian country and even though church attendance is diminishing, it doesn't alter the fact that our society has been built on Christian values. (The fact these religious holidays have long since been overly commercialised, is beside the point.)

    The 'superiority complex' part is more difficult especially so since the emergence of 'white supremacy theory' in which white people are supposed to feel guilty and apologetic for being white. I think we've moved on from the BNP days and **** bashing which was reprehensible. Like gay pride comandeering the rainbow so now that's the first thing that is brought to mind when you see it, any attempts to hang on to culture are being seen as racist and supremacist.

    It's a complex issue which largely passes me by because I don't follow politics and anything and everything seems to become politicised these days. I never know if what I'm saying is some kind of party hardline. I just react to what I see and form an opinion based on whether I think it's good or bad. If that opinion is associated with a political view, it's merely coincidence.
     
    #41
    Diego likes this.
  2. johnsonsbaby

    johnsonsbaby Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2011
    Messages:
    22,434
    Likes Received:
    12,059
    Forgive me if I'm wrong on this but it seems that both you and saint have a more extreme view on nationalism than what I would interpret it as being. I'm not seeing the superiority angle. I don't see wanting to love your country and way of life (my definition) or supporting your national sports teams as being wrong - you two don't either. For me that's sort of the beginning and end of the matter. It seems the bit I'm not getting is that wanting to protect your way of life is somehow seen as trying to display your superiority?

    If I want to put an England flag on my house (I don't), I don't think I should be barred from doing so because it might offend someone. That looks like the opposite of what you're saying. That looks like someone is saying they are superior to me and their sensibilities come before mine.
     
    #42
    Diego likes this.
  3. saintanton

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    39,820
    Likes Received:
    27,903
    Like I said, I haven't encountered this. I live in Wales, can't move for Welsh flags.
    If it happens in England, then I'd consider it a hair-shirt response from certain quarters and I don't agree with it. I still don't consider it a deliberate tactic to divide, more an attempt at controlling people through proscriptive language and behaviour - which again I'm against.
    I really don't intend going down the "Christian values" route as I imagine I have a rather different view on that than you and the subject is too controversial for a football forum.
    In fact, I think that although I like the exchange of ideas, the whole discussion has probably gone a bit too far for here.
    I'll just say that I agree with you on the (mis)appropriation of symbols.
     
    #43
  4. Milk..

    Milk.. Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2021
    Messages:
    11,276
    Likes Received:
    8,460
    That is true, I don't see that as wrong either.

    I think going to Germany and singing about German Bombers is bad... But, no nothing wrong supporting your national team. (I cringed like crazy going to a British pub to watch our last Champions League final and hearing people sing that)

    I see no problem putting an England flag on your house either. All the above I would consider Patriotism.

    As Charles De Gaulle put it:
    Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.

    I don't think the distinction is quite so clear as he put it, but it's a good generalization. And for some people (and I am in no way implying this applies to you or anyone on here) it's an easy tumble from patriotism to nationalism.

    I think the danger is when people think their nation and their people are special in some way (as is all too true in the US at the moment)... Because by implying you're special means someone else is less so.

    That's not to say it is wrong to think your country is especially beautiful, or you approve of the political setup of your country, or that you love living where you do and can't imagine living anywhere else... The problem is when people think their culture is better, or special, or that they have some divine right to be special.
     
    #44
    johnsonsbaby and saintanton like this.
  5. johnsonsbaby

    johnsonsbaby Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2011
    Messages:
    22,434
    Likes Received:
    12,059
    I was going to say that if you or Milk responded to my last posts then I would just have one final thought on whatever your responses were and duck out. I don't think we're derailing the thread because the Olympics hasn't started yet so talk about anything, loosely connected, should be ok.

    In answer to your Christian values comment I had no intention of expanding the claim any further. I have long since avoided all religious arguments and only bring up religion if it's relevant to an ongoing discussion. The fact that Britain is steeped in Christian traditions, norms and ethics with cultural markers everywhere, can't be ignored.
     
    #45
  6. Zanjinho

    Zanjinho Boom!
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2014
    Messages:
    47,723
    Likes Received:
    29,726
    Nothing wrong with supporting your home nation (or nation of choice) so long as it is supporting your home nation (or nation of choice) and not hating on others
     
    #46
    johnsonsbaby likes this.
  7. johnsonsbaby

    johnsonsbaby Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2011
    Messages:
    22,434
    Likes Received:
    12,059
    As I said in my last comment, I will make one response here and then duck out.

    The bolded bit is what I have noticed happening more and more wih the movement of peoples around the world. With receiving cultures being forced or expected to adapt, rather than the other way round. For example, blasphemy laws, which were done away with about 50 years ago, shouldn't be re-established for one religion only which is being discussed currently by government. There is no one special religion that requires special treatment regarding the laws of the land.
     
    #47
    Diego likes this.
  8. johnsonsbaby

    johnsonsbaby Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2011
    Messages:
    22,434
    Likes Received:
    12,059
    Agreed.

    Man utd though <whistle>
     
    #48
    Milk.. and Zanjinho like this.
  9. RogerisontheHunt

    RogerisontheHunt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2011
    Messages:
    14,035
    Likes Received:
    6,681
    So I discovered today that there is going to be a Kayak Cross.

    So if anyone has watched Ski-cross or Snowboard-cross in the winter, or even the BMX racing you'll have a flavour of the madness that is 'cross' sports. Now add in Kayak's, paddles, water and a very small race course (oh and they have to do a 360 role).

    Brilliant
     
    #49
  10. Milk..

    Milk.. Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2021
    Messages:
    11,276
    Likes Received:
    8,460
    I don't know what blasphemy laws are being discussed over there at the moment... But I'm a firm believer in free speech. Blasphemy laws sound the direct opposite of that. Regardless of which religion is protected.

    Similarly, I also don't approve of all the hate speech laws Britain has adopted. Once the government tells you what is offensive to say, and can charge you for it, you no longer have free speech.

    Hate speech is absolutely wrong, but unless you're inciting violence (which is a different crime altogether) Im opposed to government and legal system getting involved.
     
    #50
    Diego and saintanton like this.

  11. Zanjinho

    Zanjinho Boom!
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2014
    Messages:
    47,723
    Likes Received:
    29,726
    Shut the **** up!

    :bandit:
     
    #51
    Milk.. likes this.
  12. Milk..

    Milk.. Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2021
    Messages:
    11,276
    Likes Received:
    8,460
    Hey, you can't say that!
     
    #52
  13. Zanjinho

    Zanjinho Boom!
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2014
    Messages:
    47,723
    Likes Received:
    29,726
    I didn't, I typed it
     
    #53
  14. Tiresias

    Tiresias Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2017
    Messages:
    3,046
    Likes Received:
    2,052
    Bring back Jousting I say ,would be a great spectacle.
     
    #54
    Milk.. likes this.
  15. RogerisontheHunt

    RogerisontheHunt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2011
    Messages:
    14,035
    Likes Received:
    6,681
    I think you mean, introduce Jousting, as it's never been in the Olympics

    Unless you are just asking for Jousting to come back in general.
    Think an animal welfare issue might be raised on that. The modern pentathlon has got rid of he horse riding bit, so I can't see sharp objects being thrust towards a horse (even if they are aiming at the rider) being a favourable thing.
     
    #55
    saintanton likes this.
  16. moreinjuredthanowen

    moreinjuredthanowen Mr Brightside

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2011
    Messages:
    122,843
    Likes Received:
    29,669
    There's no horse prancing in doesn't pentathlon???

    Nooooo

    How can I tell who's a rich man's daughter playing at the Olympics from just another sweaty working class oik.
     
    #56
  17. RogerisontheHunt

    RogerisontheHunt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2011
    Messages:
    14,035
    Likes Received:
    6,681
    Horse prancing is Dressage. Yes that is still in

    MP had show jumping, ie jumping over the gates, on a random local horse they were given on the day. After the Germans punched (literally) a disobedient horse at Tokyo, it has been decided the whole part of the MP was unfair on rider and horse.
    They are now doing a ninja warrior assault course as one of the five.
     
    #57
  18. moreinjuredthanowen

    moreinjuredthanowen Mr Brightside

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2011
    Messages:
    122,843
    Likes Received:
    29,669
    Takiji's (sp?) castle at the olympics
     
    #58
  19. Tiresias

    Tiresias Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2017
    Messages:
    3,046
    Likes Received:
    2,052
    I just knew someone was going to comment like that .Not bring it back to the Olympics ,just bring it back as a great spectacle.
     
    #59
  20. RogerisontheHunt

    RogerisontheHunt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2011
    Messages:
    14,035
    Likes Received:
    6,681
    Still think there maybe some issues with severe injuries and death for horse and man.
     
    #60
    Tiresias likes this.

Share This Page