I know I bang on about psychology and team spirit and so on, but I sincerely believe that when you have several teams of roughly the same skill level (as in the bottom six or so of the Prem), spirit is the most important factor that will decide who takes the drop. With the possible exception of Howson, why is every single player in the squad playing below his potential? (OK, I know Fer is playing well, but there's a serious amount of potential there. And I know Olsson made a good start to his Norwich career but he seems to be getting dragged down along with the rest of them judging by yesterday's rubbish.) Ruddy, Bassong, Snodgrass, Johnson, Martin, Hoolahan definitely way below their best this season. Hooper so far failing to justify his 5m price tag. (Can't say anything about RvW because of this toe injury, but in a couple of the games he seemed to be losing heart.) I don't believe in coincidence, so I can only really come down to one reason. Hughton.
And isn´t that possibly because it´s the only reason you want it to be? Could be several reasons, the most obvious of which, is that some of the players perhaps are not quite as good as some of you, or they themselves, thought they were. I´ve said before that many of them over-performed under Lambert, and I still believe that to be true, also we are definitely missing a driving force, a leader, out on the pitch who can really motivate the others when things are going against us, we lost that when we lost Holt. You begin to realise now that he´s not here, just what a quality that was, whether he was playing well or not, he still had the capacity to lead by example, to motivate, something I´m finding it hard to see at the moment. Injuries have also played a part, I still think Ruddy is suffering from last season´s long lay-off, Bassong missed all pre-season and has been in and out, Snodgrass has had his own problems, with his wife´s car crash etc etc. And players do lose form, whether due to niggling injuries or just because of poor results generally, and that´s when the big characters need to come forward and show themselves, and there´s only a certain amount a manager can do in that situation. It´s not just us, it´s not just here, all teams go through it, and it is very easy to blame the manager, full stop, but I don´t think it´s quite as cut and dried as that. But with special regard to yesterday´s game, I´d say the result and the performance was about what we could have expected, where without the sloppy goal(s) given away, we could have come away with at least a point. And again, not a lot the manager could do about that.
But if they 'over-performed' under Lambert, that means they were good enough, surely? It just needed a manager who could inspire them to overperform. (Btw, whatever our differences, I agree that Holt is a big loss, certainly in terms of what he gave to the team overall.)
As Alan Latchley put it so beautifully: "football is all about the three M's - Motivation, Motivation, Motivation" [video]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oeG9r6HxJgE&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DoeG9r6HxJgE[/video] Perhaps some folk think he'd be a better optional the moment?
Munky, I know you are generally supportive of CH. But do you really believe he can motivate? (That is a genuine question, not an attack.)
What a stupid statement. Clearly many other things can effect team spirit/ confidence or whatever you want to call it.
Give me some examples then of other things that can affect team spirit over a significant period of time (not just one awful result).
Fans booing the team Falling out between players bad run of results some players heart not in it Can't just assume its down to the manager although that maybe what you want to believe as it suits your argument
Fans booing the team: Yes, it would cause loss of confidence, but this tends only to happen after a long period of under-achievement anyway. In other words, it's an effect as much as a cause. Falling out between players: Yes, but the celebrations for the third goal against West Ham suggest that this is not happening at CR. Bad run of results: Yes, but we had our second half comeback against West Ham which was supposed to kick-start our season. As soon as we went behind, our confidence seemed as fragile as ever. Players hearts not in it: Yes, but players want to win and achieve things. I think this is a bit of a circular argument: if the players' hearts aren't in it, that suggests there is a pror problem. No, I can't assume it is down to the manager, but on the other hand that is his job. It is his job to inspire his players and carry them with him. You seem to assume I have an anti-Hughton agenda. I have been very critical of him, yes, because I think there are several areas where he doesn't have the necessary skills. But, believe it or not, I actually want him to succeed. I have just now got to the stage where I don't think he can. Of course, I may be wrong but that is my opinion.
And its the players job to carry out his instructions, its the players job to give everything they have to win football matches. Football fans always look for the quick and easy answer, which is usually sack the manager. I never said you don't want him to succeed, but you certainly want him gone. Lets be honest everyone wants him to succeed as it would mean we are winning matches. I don't believe people have a personal agenda against him. You also say "you can't assume it is down to the manager". Yet above you say "so I can only really come down to one reason. Hughton"?
Ok, let me be more exact. No, I cannot assume 100% it is down to the manager, but when I look at the whole situation I come to the conclusion that it is indeed the manager. In other words, I think the strong balance of probability is that it is the manager. This season I have been looking for reasons not to get rid of him, actually. For a while, I honestly did believe we were showing signs of improvement and moving to the next stage of our development. Yesterday convinced me I was wrong about that.
We had spells v Stoke, Arsenal and Chelsea which suggested that we were much closer to 'the finished article' - whatever that is. But the games at Citeh, 1st half v Wet Sham and 80 minutes yesterday have snuffed out any suggestion of a brighter future under this current coaching set up, for me anyway
No Vietnam, my point was that they were good enough, because they were over-performing, and certainly nothing I´ve heard from Hughton suggests that he isn´t also a good motivator, but the players themselves have to have self-motivation as well, and a bounce-back-abilty, which isn´t always in evidence. In fact, one could say, based on the last two games, that whatever was said at half-time ( presumably as much by the manager as anyone else) did the trick, and certainly improved on the performances. But no-one, not even the best managers can account for individual errors, which have been cropping up a bit too frequently imo.
yesterdays loss was down to very poor awareness in the defense for the first goal and a mistake by Ruddy for the second that's mistakes and lack of concentration not lack of motivation
For heaven's sake, jarrold, do you have to be so damn sensible and keep such a robust sense of perspective?
No it was attributable to the pay off CH got from newcastle and he had to share it with Johnson and Ruddy who made deliberate errors. You could see the look of horror in CH's face when the first goal went in, because Johnson looked so ****e, that people may have started to ask questions about match fixing.
