That's a non-point in a debate... It's entirely based on opinion and what people have personally witnessed. If we went on the basis "the fact is you don't know" then every debate about players, bigger clubs, and who has the best fans is pointless. It seems people will defend themselves having an opinion but won't let others have an opinion.
Because we have a thing called pre-season training and warm-up games with Celtic and Real Bettis and through all of this Taylor and Caulker are going to be ascerting themselves ... or at least they should be. There is no secret that if our regular 606 posters were polled on the question Tate v Taylor at left back Taylor would come out on top. We hashed this out during the playoffs and I think that's the way it came out. Whatever we think of Taylor at this point, he is still our player, and do we really want to see Tate retreating against whichever multi-million pound signing City has on the right wing on opening day - the Reading right winger almost backed him into the stands at Wembley. Likewise Monk v Tate, at center-back, I call it a wash. (At Wembley, first half about half way through, there was a cross from the Reading right wing that Monk just turned his head away from the ball instead putting his head through it and putting it behind for a corner or whatever. The ball went past Monk, DDV was in no-mans land, Williams, Rangel and out the far side for a goal kick. A Reading forward was inches from making contact on the edge of the 6 yard box). If Caulker can't or isn't expected to show better than either Monk or Tate, then what's the point in his loan. Similar with Borini, if he wasn't going to show better than Moore/Beattie, then what was the point. I expect Caulker to start alongside Williams - can he be effective, who's to say, he's young but apparently very talented. I wholeheartedly hope that Monk / Tate compete for a place, and if they show up tops, then amen and congratulations to them, they've worked hard and would have earned it .... but, who wants to go down to William Hill and wager a pint of beer on it. Now, if another club from the Championship / L1 or wherever comes in with an offer for Monk or Tate, then I think the club should present the offer in good faith to Monk / Tate and say it's up to you; you're welcome to stay here and earn a place, what would you like to do. Personally, I would hope that both players would turn any such offer down and give it a go, and I expect that that's what they would do, and everyone would be pulling for them to be the best that they could be. Look at who we started the season with in 1981, get your old programs out and check out that line-up, I did a few weeks back. 1981 v 2011 = night and day in terms of experience at this level; we just don't have the luxury of sentiment or wishful thinking.
Well said Yankee, I am not against either player as they have been good for the Swans, and helped us progress over quite a few years, they no doubt love playing for the swans, but there comes a time when we need to go a step further, and that is why we are bringing in new players, Dai you are all for the club spending money bringing in players, but you say its wrong to question whether players are good enough for the club, tell me where would these new players fit in with your blinkered views of the team? I mean god forbid they replace a legend!
the facts are none of us know if monk, tate,bodde or any other player are good enough, we wont know untill we see them play a few times, there is no argument for or argument against. we simply do not know none of us do and that is a fact....
Well your logic in this is that we can't discuss the merits of any player, because it's not based on facts, single handily you have ended the function of this forum as we can't discuss anything as we can't speculate at all!
I didn't say that. I said, or what I was trying to say was, your view on Monk is maybe clouded because he came up from League 2 with us, therefore 'he can't be good enough'. So, have you been quick to forget the incredible bad form Williams hit towards the final third of the season. His defending was shabby for a period of time. [que witch hunt from doey and co...] Williams is a very good defender, i'm not saying he isn't. But I don't think anyone can argue with the fact he had a pretty poor patch - like all players do at some point. I don't recall such a patch from Monk last season. Therefore, in my opinion, Monk was as good, or even better than Williams for 2010/2011. Monks problem is that he misses a number of games through injury. When that happens this season, Caulker will probably step in and do a good job, which will make it difficult for Monk to get his place back.
your playing with words jager, some say they are not premiership standard and im saying that the fact s we dont know....pretty simple as far as i can see....you dont know so why make a judgment until we find out for sure. all the players deserves a shot at it....lets wait and see ...
They are under contract it's that simple, if monk is to go to the saints it will be his decision at the end of the day, if he goes it will be with my thanks, if he stays he must prove that he is good enough to stay! Tate is not being linked with anyone, but the same applies with him! Brendan has said there will be no sentiment with this, if any player is not good enough for us we must look at what options there are for us, we need players who can take us to the next step not for us to stay where we are! I would say that monk will be looking at retirement within the next 2 years whether he stays with us or not, he has been injured quite a bit , how much more can he take ?
I bet Monk starts the first game , any takers !! . Williams will need his presence . It's Williams I worry about the most as it's him that most have placed their confidence . If Williams is supported in defense & is able to ramble a bit this season , he could get more than a few goals . The defensive spot beside him is important , Monk & Caulker have to share a spot & play huge , defensively !!
Hit the nail square on the head there SB. Williams has played a huge run of games without an injury and there has been international duty on top of that so he's never really been able to enjoy a rest during the international breaks; perhaps he's played through injury, but I don't think any of us would know, the club have never said anything, and by watching him you wouldn't be able to tell. If he goes out with injury we're in some trouble. Seran has left, so without calling up the under-20's, we have Williams, Caulker, Monk, Tate and that's it. Who else would go back there ... Agustien? If Monk has a relapse of his back problems we're left with Tate / Caulker.
I'm not saying that he can't be good enoyugh because he has been with us for so long, because Leon has been with us for longer, apart from that half season at Sheffield. And I think that Leon is good enough for the Prem, What I have based my opinion on is how players looked last season, You can often tell if a player can make the step up if they play well in the division below, Monk was good last season, but wasn't outstanding, the players who were exceptionally good last season are the ones who are going to shine in the Premiership, the likes of Sinclair,Dobbie and Dyer are Premier League standard along with Rangel, Ashley Williams and Danny Graham. Then again this is all based on opinion and because none of our players have major Premier League standard we can't be sure who will do well and who won't, for all we know Sinclair could flop next seaoson.
This isn't a witch hunt, sorry to disappoint you Rhys! There's no doubting that Williams had a bad patch last season, he did go through a bad run of games but then you'll struggle to find a player in the squad that didn't... Monk may not have gone through such a prolific "bad patch" but then he did spend time on the side line injured which Williams didn't AT ALL. I'm not entirely sure what my point is, because I think we should keep Monk... I do disagree however that "Monk was as good, or even better than Williams for 2010/2011." Sorry, I can't go along with that.
I think selling at the moment would be a crazy thing to do especially as the squad isn't big at all. I understand that Monk won't always be in the first team But there is always a time when he will be needed as a backup if say another defender was injured/suspended and i think mink will always stay with Swansea anyway! give him another 3 years maybe and he'll still be around.... maybe in the coaching department but he is full of jack character and brilliant with command and direction!
