It is embarrassing and unnatural for a debt ridden and underperforming championship club to comment on premiership matters. They should concentrate on turnstile painting.
Ok then Supers, I presume you have played the game how about this scenerio. Your team have a corner, you are in the area being marked by a defender, as the ball comes over you make a deliberate push on the defender (2 hands on the back) and head the ball in the net. what is the difference? would you then turn around to the ref to say what you had done?
you're very determined aren't you!! i have done this before and celebrated and got away with it more often than not - of course, i knew what i was doing but i'm sorry - tussles like this happen all the time from both sets of players. it is not the same as knowingly punching the ball in the goal to win a match. i too was always being pushed at set pieces so to have any chance whatsoever you'd have to give it back. it is deliberate but if both players are attempting to gain an advantage it is totally different from punching a ball in the net to gain an advantage. if you shove a defender over and head it in the net i'd be too embarrassed to celebrate. i'd get out of there and if the official didn't spot it i'd get on with it. i would not take glory from it though, not that i ever scored such a ridiculous goal in my life! the most dubious one i ever scored was a free kick where i was in the wall as an attacker and the ball hit my arm and went in. it counted but my reaction was to go 'ouch' and shake my arm! how the ref missed it i'll never know... it was unmissable and my reaction made it more blatant. i didn't celebrate but my team mates did. make of that what you will...
The way i look at it, is the other team wouldn't lose any sleep over it if they done the same, so why should I? Plenty of times a ref will say I controlled the ball with my arm before I lashed it in, when if fact it was good chest control. I would rather admit to doing that, than goiing into a tackle with the main aim is to injure the opponent!
i think you're probably right about the 'not worrying too much about it' thing, but you really can't then have a go at any norwich players such as tierney should he go over easily, something which i was furious about at the time, despite it happening against us in previous games. that was an act of cheating that i can't stand as he got a fellow professional sent off or not really doing anything wrong. in another example, people moaned about when delaney got sent off for pulling holt down. you can't argue that he pulled him back, holt didn't just pretend he was pulled back. its then down to the ref whatever action he takes, be it red, yellow or whatever. anyway, did you hear what gary neville was saying last night? it was quite scary really, but he basically showed players like lampard, gerrard and beckham diving all over the place, then said that we should not retrospectively ban players for diving as we want to see the best players playing every week. he said they are model professionals - yet they all dive. maybe if they all got a 3 game ban they'd think twice about doing it or am i going mad?!
It all goes back to soemthing i said on the Norwich board, The governing bodies has made the diving issue more prevelant in removing the art of tackling. I'm not saying we should go back to the days of knee high tackles, but to say its a free kick when the ball is clearly played first is crazy and is taking the soul out of the game, and more importantly giving the refs a harder time.
With regards to the holt/delaney issue. do you think there was enough force from delaneys 'pull back' to significatly stop his run or enough force to knock Holt of his feet?
Guru - you're not old enough to remember, but the first FA cup final I saw on the box was 1958! Nat Lofthouse bundled the ball, which was in Harry Gregg's arms, plus Harry himself into the net with an almighty shoulder charge! Gregg was knocked out and received treatment for about five minutes before groggily carrying on! That was the only goal of the match and it was allowed to stand! Can you imagine the fuss if that were to happen today?
TBH Dave, you don't need to go back that far. I believe the late 80's early 90's had the balance of tackling about right, you could go in hard but fair, there was no reckless knee high tackles, but you could still go in full blooded if the ball was there to be won. Unfortunately todays football, that art has been taken out which is why we have the diving issues because players know as soon as they go down they will more than likely get the decision.
yes, it was a pull of the arm. i'm not saying holt couldn't have wriggled free and run on but it was so blatant - thats why i've never quite understood the furore about the decision. your argument should always have been with the ref for giving red rather than yellow (could have been either on another day), not holt for going down after a blatant pull back.
do you remember an incident in the late 80s where gary crosby of forest headed the ball out of tony coton's hand while he was about to kick it? that goal stood - could you imagine the debate had someone done that now? he'd most likely been sent off for unsporting behaviour!
The one that i remember the most was Andy Gray's header against Watford in the FA Cup final, Steve Sherwood basically had 2 hands on the ball and it still stood!
Think you'll find the keeper was Andy Dibble! There was such an outcry after that match that referees were directed to regard that as ungentlemanly conduct!
I remember watching it on tv with Andy Dibble walking towards the ref, pointing to his now empty hand and saying, "It was in my ****ing hand ref!"
