I appreciate this is water under the bridge but it remains an era most of us still probably think about and it's something different from the "sack Fletcher, save the Titanic" posts. Did you all see this? http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20392765 Having been given Holloway's biography by my better half, who was, in her womanly way, obviously blissfully unaware of his departure and the nature of it, despite her status as an adopted Argyle fan, I did think that he came across as an individual who is full of enthusiasm at the start of something new but who is quickly bored or disillusioned. This came across to me in his departures for Bristol Rovers and QPR, where he seemed almost to invent reasons why he was being done wrong and to leave. This comment regarding his latter days at Blackpool makes you wonder what exactly was going on before he left Argyle.....
I think Holloway does get disillusioned quickly and that is a part of his character. I don't think it is money driven. There are stories about his time here and reasons for departure that are credible but I personally don't think it is all of the story. There is a story about the sale of certain players by the then Stapleton board. Allegedly it was the sale of these players that led him to question the ambition of the club given where we were. I would guess that the whole of the money obtained wasn't for him to re-stock either. He allegedly gave them an ultimatum and when it didn't happen he left at the first opportunity. I would guess again that the Blackpool owner didn't match what Holloway thought he would or should spend out after their promotion and quickly lost the plot once more. I think he would love to be one of those managers who can buy who they want pretty much rather than one who has to wheel and deal to stretch the budget. I'm not surprised at the attack training as opposed to defence. He always seemed to believe that just scoring more than the opposition was the answer and nothing else much mattered. A true philosophy in it's own way but a scary way to run a campaign. I've read part of his book but not all of it and it doesn't really include the Argyle part. It's the one he was flogging a day before he left.
That isn't Stapleton's version of things; he said that Holloway was dismissive of the need to act to retain certain players by offering contract extensions etc so that they slipped away. I read recently that Holloway threatened a libel action over it but subsequently dropped the idea. That's as clear evidence you'll get that what Stapleton said was true. It's certainly not how I would interpret the book either: it came across very clearly even from his own account that he became disillusioned or disaffected at Bristol Rovers & Palace BEFORE there was much cause to be so. He then seemed to manufacture grievances and set his mind against reconciliation over trivial matters & imagined slights. Maybe it's a defence mechanism when things turn against him a bit. More likely therefore that Stapleton's version is correct: certainly Evatt is saying that Holloway was mentally gone some months before he actually left! That fits the pattern: buzz of promotion & the Premier League gone, no promotion last year despite the parachute payments, only in mid-table now with 2 wins out out the last 10, so all of a sudden, he "needed a new challenge".
Ian Holloway or Hollowman as maybe he unfairly was called by many,me included, can liven the place up when he is on top form. I doubt if we will fully understand what happened when he moved out.......signing his book and kissing the badge one day....and gone the next. I to had just bought his book...It took maybe a year or so for me to read it without too much enthusiasm I must admit.......the thing that upset me the most was his picture in the new Calendar....plus players that we had sold as well. If he was ever available again I would not want him back.......and I doubt if he would be interested any way.
There would be no point in him coming back as we'd know what was coming. Good manager though, wish Fletch was a fraction of the manager he is, his enthusiasm alone would be very welcome around the place.
Having had a long time to reflect on Holloway, I don't think there's anything complex about the man or the situations he's been embroiled in when leaving clubs. I genuinely think he is one of life's chancers, a ducking and diving wideboy who has ridden his luck and risen far above his natural level through little more than possessing the blessing of an attention grabbing manner and personality. His modus operandi is to go in somewhere and bleed the club colours to anyone who will listen and to enchant the entire community. It's all fake however and that's why it courts so much controversy when he suddenly bails out the day after publically bleeding green, orange or whatever! He is king of the patter and a master of the gab. The power of blagging is never to be underestimated and when it comes to blagging then Holloway is a Jedi Master! Holloway reminds me of a character I knew in the navy. This chap was seriously ugly but yet was a serial and successful womaniser and lady's man. He used the power of the gab to enchant women and despite his shrek like appearance, he managed to get his way with more ladies than Hugh Heffner! What really struck me about this chap was how aware he was of his talent of blagging. He knew he was ugly as a walruses coldsore, but he had the gift of the gab and it meant he could punch, no soar above his weight. Holloway I think applies a similar approach to football clubs. He knows how to enchant and seduce thousands for his own personal gain and boy does it work! His failure at Leicester despite being given an open chequebook exposes the truth about his footballing credentials or lack of. A blagger and a chancer through and through!
I think notdistant that you are too ready to just believe the management in everything. It is just as credible that Holloway couldn't be bothered and is no proof whatsoever that he wasn't right in reality. Chances are we will never know the truth because supporters seldom do. You may well be right with Holloway's character surfer. However, he does seem to get a lot out of players and you can only blag for so long in football before being found out. You cannot deny he was a good manager here albeit a shallow one in the end. You cannot deny what he did with an average side like Blackpool. I have always said there is an element of luck involved in putting a winning side together. Right players right time and it clicks against most of the odds. Unless you can just go out and buy a replacement anytime you feel like it. One thing for sure is that he is definately one with the gift of the gab though. I've met people like that also and you wonder how they get away with it but they just seem to. I think it's a sort of Delboy who dares wins kind of thing. I was quite shy and stood in the background type when young and used to envy others who could just start a chat up and somehow end up with the trophy everytime.
No, rarely with libel, once you've staked your reputation twice - once in the original statements and again in threatening libel action - you have to carry through if you are not to give yourself away. Holloway didn't follow through. I don't know if you disagree with me as a matter of principle or what, but there you are one minute pointing out the two-faced nature of Holloway's departure from Argyle and then accusing me of blindly believing everything Stapleton said! Do you not judge people by what they do rather than what they say? I've admitted before that grudgingly I have to express admiration of what he did on a shoestring at Blackpool, which confirms his early successes at Argyle were no fluke. You've hit the nail on the head though, he livens the place up when he's on top form, which is when the novelty's there, but he can't blag forever and starts seeking the exit once that starts to become evident. After all, with all his successes, you only have to listen to him [and read his book] to know he's an football man through & through but not the sharpest knife in the drawer. Oddly, I think he has charisma but NOT a huge amount of self confidence.
Not just disagreeing for the sake of it notdistant. I have little regard for Holloway the man and stand by that statement as I have consistently throughout. I have little regard for the Stapleton Board either and believe very little that they say or said in later years anyway. All I said was that I had heard that Holloway gave them an ultimatum that he did not want certain players to be sold. They sold them ergo he left. I have no idea which one is right anymore than you do. I do know that Holloway is a good manager and I didn't want him to leave. I do know that he has flaws also, at least I do now, and there is something in his character that is more bull than meant. What I do know is that I am no longer about to just believe something because "The Management" have said it is so. People do lie and they are not all the working classes. Sometimes people in higher places are less than liberal with the truth. In fact quite often.
The Stapleton board became the Gardner board after the latter's buy-in. It's unfair to put much weight on that period in judging Stapleton as he was merely a bit player.
Oh that's alright then. Stapleton was blameless and an angel. It was his Board who got greedy and started the rot. Just because others came in afterwards and continued it to it's sad conclusion is no reason to absolve him and his then Board of blame and stretching the truth. Having witnessed the carnage I have little reason to believe or trust in any of them either then or since and what's more I'm not about to.
Stapleton was blameless and an angel Did I say that or anything like it? No I didn't. I merely said he was a bit player by then. Greedy could be selling your shares and taking your money out at a premium, which is exactly the opposite of what Stapleton did. He left his money in but let others invest in the expectation it would be for the benefit of the club, As a result, his control was diluted and eventually he lost the lot. What's your definition of greedy? Or is another misunderstanding of how shareholdings work?
I also said "his Board" and not him personally notdistant if we are going to correct. This accountant who couldn't see the figures in front of his eyes. You'd trust him to advise you wouldn't you. I wouldn't trust him with my mother's premium bonds and she only had two. This accountant who was marginalised and didn't know how bad the books were and never thought to look. Yep lets all trust in Stapes because if you believe that then you will believe anything. The worst thing is he was a fan and yet still let it all happen without so much as a peep.
A little bit like a tennis match (sorry Mrs LaLa) watching what comes next between sensible and notDistant.....hitting head against a brick wall comes to mind......I'm staying clear.....I got called various names for having a personal view recently.........it's not worth a coronary sensible.
Stapleton undid all the good things that happened in his early years........he dabbled with the big boys....who turned out to be sharks...and they gobbled him up. notDistant is right he became a bit player.......lost control to Gardner......who had Man U on his CV....so he must of been ok then......wrong Stapleton, money became the aim.......New World.......World Cup venue.........the rest is history.......well not quite we are still going through the death throws......and if we ain't careful it could become terminable even a year plus later.
Sensible - "Oh that's alright then. Stapleton was blameless and an angel." Plymborn - If you remember, the logic at the time was that Stapleton & his local lads had done what they could and more business muscle was required to move PAFC on to the next level, which is what everyone wanted, especially the fans. So he brought in not some fly-by-night, but someone with an impeccable senior management track record, advisor to the government, knighthood, previous football experience at a top level club, the lot. Hard to see why that seemed like a bad idea at the time. Getting included in the World Cup bid was a huge achievement in itself and actually getting the games would have been a massive fillip for the city and region. If you can explain how that went to administration & near extinction, without using the words "greed" or "crook" etc [i.e. the real explanation], I'd like to know, because I still haven't a clue what they thought they were doing.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing......would we have done it differently.....I doubt it......I know that Stapleton was guilty as a Director in the end........but I do feel sorry for him......he has lost out Financially, emotionally and as a genuine supporter has to watch from a distance.....very sad really.
I feel for him too. He did the right thing by the club but it all went horribly wrong so that he & his family are barely safe in the town. What information he was party to when the financial crash started we don't know, but how any of them could have failed to spot the wage bill was several times income is anyone's guess. Talk about the elephant in the room........
