Have we really overachieved?

Let's take a look at our starting 11:

------------------Krul----------------
Simpson --- Saylor --- Colo --- Raylor
Obertan --- Cabaye --- Tiote --- Jonas
---------------Ba --- Best------------

Krul = A really, really good keeper. At his current form he's arguably one of the best in the league.

Saylor and Colo = A formidable partnership and thanks to them (and Krul) we currently have the best defence in the league. No arguments there.

Simpson and Raylor = Our two weakest positions imo, but hey, they do the job most of the time. They're hardly a liability.

Obertan and Jonas = Two good quality mid-table wingers who can beat their man and put crosses in or play a part in goals. Obertan's pace and Jonas' ability to beat almost anyone work very well for us, especially in counter-attacks.

Cabaye and Tiote. Imo, the second best CM partnership outside the top 4 second only to Spurs. Tiote is an animal and was even being linked to replace Essien at one point, and Cabaye is honestly bringing more to the team than Barton and Nolan combined. Two players who could very easily play for a MUCH higher level than us.

Ba and Best. Say what you want about these guys, but they're scoring goals and they look like real threats. In fact, in every match we play it seems very likely that at least one of them will get a goal. They work so well together.

And this is WITHOUT Santon and Ben Arfa, arguably two of our best players given time. How many other teams do so well with such key players out?



Now let's look at the teams we've faced and the results:

Wolves. Not a bad side, but on paper, they're a side we can beat, and we did. We have better and more prolific players in almost every position.

Blackburn. They're not a great side and again, we have better players in almost every position, and it showed.

Villa. A good side with some lethal players, but we held them to a draw at their own ground and probably deserved a win.

QPR. Not a bad side either with their new signings, and they pressed hard, but we got through it and the defence held up.

Fulham. It was our home ground and on paper we're a match for these guys. It showed.

Sunderland. Imo, we have a better starting 11, so not only did we stop them from scoring, but thanks to Ryan Taylor, we got ourselves the win.

Arsenal. Not the side they once were, but they were still very strong at the start of the season (seem worse now thanks to injury lists and a dwindling team spirit). Comfortably got ourselves a point.

Yes, some of the results had to be ground out, but Wolves, Villa, QPR and Sunderland were all away games, so the opposing teams had the home advantage whilst we had the liability of being away, yet we still did well. How do we expect them to fair when we take them on at SJP?

So tell me. Where is the overachievement? If we play very well we have the ability to match or overtake all of these teams in-terms of performance, and, well, that's exactly what happened. Where's the surprise?

 

It's only because we've been lucky and untested

 

Purely since we're sitting in fourth I'd say right now yes we have overachieved, looking at the fullback positions is enough to suggest that. If we were in sixth I'd argue perhaps not as I see no reason on paper why that team couldn't beat anybody outside Man U, City, Chelsea, Liverpool and Spurs.

You also forgot Marveaux though, who I think is going to be a massive player for us once he finally gets a real chance.

 

I think we've been lucky in a way that Cabaye and Ba settled fairly quickly. No one doubted their quality, just how quickly they'd integrate with the rest of the team.

We have overachieved though, on paper these were fixtures we perhaps could expect to do well in, but actually doing it is another thing. Unless you're competing for the title you'd expect a slip up, the fact we've been so consistent is more than we should really expect.

 

It isn't overachieving, it's achieving what we're capable of.

 

yeah we have another 30 or so 'real tests' to come through yet.

 

Sick of this bullshit. No we haven't overachieved, we have a good team and we've won games we should have. Why should settle for top 10? top 8? We're Newcastle United we're better than that.

 

If Man U won all their games this season wouldn't you say they'd overachieved? They have the best team and therefore should win all their games.

 

i think we've just beaten teams we had a realistic chance of beating in a consistent fashion rather than the way we looked at teams oin paper in years gone by and said we should be beating them. now we're doing it. theres no over achieving in that for me. we're just playing consistently to the best of our ability. we'll have our ups and downs like any other team.

 

no we are underacheived we should be top

 

That is really what my whole post comes down to. If you look at our starting 11 and look at our opponents so far, it's reasonable to say that we've won games we should have won, drew some games we should have drawn, and even drawn some games we should have won with our performance on the day.

And many of these are away performances, where we will have the home advantage when we face them next.

 

november will be the tester. we could potenitally beat anybody on our day but i'll see how we cope with the two manchester sides on the bounce. i want to see if we handle a defeat the right way and have 'bouncebackability'

 

The test will be Spurs. They will be the first top team with form we have faced.... Arsenal are a top team but really out of form at the moment.

End of November we play the two Manchesters then Chelski so be prepared to lose 3 on the belt there.... how we pick ourselves up beginning of December and through the New Year when our African players are out will be the defining moment of the season for me. Get any points against the aforementioned three and a quick return to winning ways soon after and i think we are in for a good season. FAR too early to tell and lets be honest QPR and Wolves should have beaten us and things could have been different if Nzonzi hadnt hit the bar early in the second half against Blackburn.

Its been a long time coming but we are getting alot of luck coming our way at the moment. That will change. We havent totally outclassed the opposition and this "best defensive record" is in the main down to Krul and the fact the opposition strikers have been so poor (Bothroyd should have had 3 for QPR!!).

We are doing well and the lofty position of 4th is more than anyone could imagine. There wouldnt be many who would have expected us to be on the current points tally either. I am enjoying the moment but not getting carried away. This is NUFC there will be trials and tribulations on the horizon.

 

We've also drawn games, I'm saying beating the muckems, Fulham, Blackburn & Wolves are games we should win, that's not overachieving, it's just achieving what we should do. ManU winning every game would be overachieving.

In our current form there aren't many teams in the league we should fear or maybe lose against, certainly wouldn't count The Spuds amongst them.

 

Yeah it's really not as simple as that, we're still in the recovery process. We're only in our second season back in the Premier League, surely you can't say you expect us to be competing with the big boys already. That's a monumental achievement considering the strength and financial muscle of clubs like Man U, City and Liverpool. We're a tight financial unit now, we don't just splurge money now, we're looking at the long haul so we should treat it like that.

In time if we make the right moves in the transfer market and keep our best players I see no reason why we can't restore to a measure of our former glory, but I think you're jumping the gun a bit.

I guess it all depends on how you interpret overachieving as a concept. If you see it as doing better than you expected then yes we've overachieved but if you see it as doing better than you deserve then I'd say hell no we haven't overachieved.

 

Why does it have to take years to recover? We bought some great players and kept solid players and have a good team. Our team is better than the likes of Everton, Stoke etc we have better players, haven't overspent, why can't we push for a top place? There's very few teams better than us from what I've seen so far this season and we've got so really good players who haven't had a decent run yet, people moan about lack of strength in depth but we've still got to see HBA, Marv, Gosling, Santon yet. I think a lot of people are in for a shock because they'll under-estimate us this season.

 

Considering who we have played so far, I would say we aren't overachieving. I guess just being 4th instantly means we are overachieving (to other fans and pundits).

 

I wouldn't say we're overacheiving at the moment, but if we end the season in 4th i'd say we would have overacheived A LOT.

Also I think Cabaye is great but saying he adds more than Barton and Nolan put together is a bit of an exaggeration. I know I'll get shot down for this but I think Barton was just as important and effective as Cabaye. Having said that Barton does come with a lot of baggage and is a lot older (and isn't even French )

 

I like your philosophy mate, but I'm just making allowances for injuries etc over the whole seasons and potential setbacks as big boys come sniffing around more of our players.

It's an amazing achievement to get back into the reckoning as we have but it's one thing getting up to top 8 and another entirely to overtake the top 4 clubs permanently (probably 3 now Arsenal seem to be falling away). We saw it with Everton, they managed it but they couldn't sustain it because the big lads just went out and bought while they couldn't. The league isn't the same as it used to be and I think your suggestion that we could go from Championship to competing with the Man Uniteds and Chelseas and now Man Cities of this world on our budget within just a couple of years is a bit ridiculous.

 

Completely disagree. Cabaye is probably on par with Barton already after a few games in a new league and he's improving all of the time. I firmly do consider him a different class to Barton, and I think the pundits hailing Cabaye as the purchase of the entire Summer window at only £4.5mill adds weight to that theory.