I think suarez was a special case.... I do agree ok maybe some of city's buys under hughes were not great. he bought bellamy for example..... I think aguero and silva only came for the big time when they saw the club was getting there and YAYA had a lot to do with that, but he only came for the big big money. to complete at the top you need to give the wages and you have to either get guys real and barca doesn't want, their castoffs or guys who you can get 3-4 good year sout of before they come knocking. the reality for LFC is city and utd and chelsea can and will out pay us all day... so we have to tie up better younger player on longer deals and spend very wisely when we do. can't compete but don't need to if you mix the right parts of arsenals youth with the right parts of buying experienced talent.
I think suarez was a special case.... I do agree ok maybe some of city's buys under hughes were not great. he bought bellamy for example..... I think aguero and silva only came for the big time when they saw the club was getting there and YAYA had a lot to do with that, but he only came for the big big money. to complete at the top you need to give the wages and you have to either get guys real and barca doesn't want, their castoffs or guys who you can get 3-4 good year sout of before they come knocking. the reality for LFC is city and utd and chelsea can and will out pay us all day... so we have to tie up better younger player on longer deals and spend very wisely when we do. can't compete but don't need to if you mix the right parts of arsenals youth with the right parts of buying experienced talent.
I think that is the crux of the issue. Time and again we've heard from players in teams in the Europa, bleating on about wanting CL footie - well then, get stuck in and EARN IT, you feckless twat! If you just want to jump ship from whomever was luckless enough to have previously signed an overambitious "Me-First!" merchant, They're probably weeping to hear those immortal words in the media. Its a kick in the teeth to the fans of that club, pretty much saying, "I don't give a stuff about you, its all about ME!" Its also the annoyance when a the likes of Torres went mooning after Chelsea, and subsequently moaned about how he'd spent good years at Liverpool but he "...wanted CL football and wasn't prepared to work for it over the next couple of seasons..." - So long, Fernando, don't let the door hit your arse on the way out...
You think our talent pool is that small? Sure some players are just in it for the money, but all? No, there are many players who want to play good football, and have values and ethics. And we are a club that hold such values. No-one is bigger than the club, it is a whole team that wins a match, not a single player, and so on. Not every player is so stupid as to believe that nothing is more important than the money. Look at Carra, at one time, the best central defender in this country, but because he has never been a big time Charlie, he has existed under the radar of the media and just lived his football life. He has never looked like moving anywhere else, never made the press for all the wrong reasons, a club legend, we all agree, and as many a person has said, we would have a team of carras, and we would want a team of like-minded people, if we could get them. Carra would never have moved anywhere else, so why would the likes of Messi and other 1 club legends? But they are out there, and they are not motivated by cash or moving around Europe to try different leagues, they love football at it's purest level, and it is these players we need to find, and fill all eleven shirts with them. We shouldn't need to lock them into a long term contract, they should never want to leave.
You say this, but maybe it's because other clubs don't actually want him. I don't remember a club publically announcing that they wish to sign Carra? It's easy to stay at a club when no one else wants you. This is probably why you don't find many English players that move abroad, purely because they aren't good enough hence the declining England National squad. Players like Ronaldo, Messi, Suarez etc are top class players and EVERYONE wants them hence clubs will offer the world to secure their services. English players don't have anyone with that kind of quality that makes the biggest clubs in Europe take notice and think 'Wow, this English player is a fantastic player and a good brand'. One player I can think of is David Beckham. He was a Man Utd boy through and through and spent most of his career there and I don't think many people thought he would leave. But then a massive club like Real come in and his head was turned (helped by his altercation with Fergie). The same applied to our beloved McManaman and (hated) Michael Owen. I bet if Real/Barca were seriously interested in Gerrard and Carra, then they would want to move.
Well think about it, how many Englishmen move abroad? No where near as many as foreigners coming to play in the EPL. Then think about how many times a top European club has tried to sign English players? Not that many. Then I gave you examples of players including Owen and McManaman who were adored by the Kop, who still left after a club like Real Madrid came knocking. P.S - I'm not knocking Carra's ability and he is a fantastic servant to the club. I'm just using him an example as to why it's easier to be a one man club when no one tries to sign you.
i also agree... the RIGHT player is the guy who wants to make the step up and is ambitious. perfect examples are sami hyppia and deitmar hammann.... were we i nthe cl when they came.... add enrique to that list, if you get the right guys, FAST ENOUGH to build a side beofre the big clubs come sniffing you can get into the cl and retain them BUT arsenal are a perfect example of a club settling for 4th and players leaving for more success. Players want medals.. want glory and being an also ran cl team aint that either...
Think you've got the complete wrong end of the stick here mate. For a start we can have no idea when and how often foreign clubs have tried to sign English players. If you think about this rationally then the reason there are few top English players abroad is not the latest fad that 'English players are no good': For starters as English is a dominant language our youngsters often fail to learn other languages to a decent standard. This has a knock-on effect on how comfortable players and their families are likely to be when they move abroad, and even our perception of other countries as a home. Secondly the Premier League is considered by most to be the best league in the world. Why drive to McDonalds if you live above Gordan Ramsey? Many other players in Europe cannot earn highly in their own leagues or cannot play to the same standard. English players can stay at home and get both. Thirdly it is widely accepted that it is beneficial to your chances of making your national team if you play in the top division of that nation, as it is difficult for national managers to give their full attention to players abroad. Given the above why are our ill-educated Little-Englander mentality (generalization) footballers going to leave one of the most well-off democracies in the world with arguably the best league in the world? It's not because Gerrard wouldn't have made the Madrid team- just ask Real's Director of Football (a clue is the initials ZZ). If the Hungarian league was the best league in the world then far more English players would be playing in Hungary, but since the big prize is on their doorstep that's the way it's gonna be. There may well have been no inquiries for Carragher publicized, but then what about Maldini? What about Casillas? Puyol? Zanetti? Was there a lack of inquiries due to nobody wanting them, or just the fact that it would have been a wasted bid from a manager or a wasted story from a paper? Carra has had no transfer stories because he is a one-club-man, rather than being a one-club-man because of a lack of transfer stories.
Really good points mate. With regards to language barriers, there are a lot of players e.g. Luis Suarez who can't speak English but they will learn to help them embrace the culture and to communicate. This English laziness is the underlying problem throughout the country at all levels, not just football. One thing we have to remember is Real Madrid and Barcelona are the biggest clubs in the world. Yes, they may play in a 'weaker' league but they are still better than all English clubs. They have the history, the trophies, the fans, the money - everything that a footballer would love. The only English club that does resemble this (I hate saying it) are Man Utd (they have the stadium, sell out crowds etc and the revenue). But even the likes of Ronaldo and Van Nisterlrooy jumped at the chance when Real came knocking. Why would ronaldo want to leave when he'd just won the Champions League with Man Utd? Real were way off Barcelona but yet he still wanted to go. I genuinely believe that if Real really wanted our players like Gerrard, they could have them as we saw with McManaman.
Going back to the OP - it's encouraging that we attracted players like Suarez and Enrique before we got into the Champions League. There is a good saying that I feel is very apt: If you aren't with me during my struggles, then you don't deserve to be with me during my success.
I hate to say this but this is a whole load of drivel. I read the responses and many are too polite to say what they believe. But the whole point about the champions league is that this where we as a top team and club should aspire tobe. Good as the Carling Cup was and it should be a springboard for better things to come, the reality is our club SHOULD be competing for the title and that being part of the top four means competing in the CL. I will never support any apologists for us being content with the odd domestic cup and seventh.
