Off Topic European Debate Thread

The only bullshitters here appear to be you and David Cameron then??


"David Cameron has said that he still “very much supports” Turkey joining the European Union, despite his Government's inability to control numbers of EU migrants coming to the UK.

The Prime Minister was quizzed about his support for Turkey’s accession to the EU during a visit to Turkey to meet the country’s Prime Minister and President.

Mr Cameron said he had discussed Turkey’s accession to the EU during talks in Ankara on Tuesday afternoon with Ahmet Davutoglu, the Turkish Prime Minister.

The visit was his first since 2010 when he told the Turks the backed the country’s goal of joining the EU. He said then that he wanted to “make the case” for Turkey’s EU membership.

Asked if he still felt that way despite his Government’s inability to control inward migration from EU countries and bring net migration down to the tens of thousands of people, he said that he had discussed it again with Turkish Prime Minister.

He said: “In terms of Turkish membership of the EU, I very much support that.

“That’s a longstanding position of British foreign policy which I support. We discussed that again in our talks today”.

In a speech at the Turkish parliament in Ankara in July 2010, Mr Cameron said: “I’m here to make the case for Turkey's membership of the EU. And to fight for it.”

He added that he wanted to "pave the road" for Turkey to join the EU, saying the country was "vital for our economy, vital for our security and vital for our diplomacy".

A European Union without Turkey at its heart was “not stronger but weaker."

 

Britain does pay in £350 million pounds per week into the EU. The figure was verified on the ITV news post debate. The remainers argue the figure is less due to a rebate and spending the EU makes in the UK. So yes the money could be spent on the NHS if the money was under control of a democracy instead of EU bureaucrats.

The figure the leave campaign have mooted is spending five billion of the UK's membership fee on the NHS instead.

Regarding Turkey. Mr Camerons wants Turkey to join the EU, and British diplomats are working towards the aim..

 

Your John Major post says nothing about your claim that the leave campaign have stated the £350m will all be spent on the NHS?

I said put 'evidence' not some poor excuse of an ex Tory prime ministers opinion who it seems to me is fearing for his lucrative seat on the EU gravy train. The man was a buffoon then and it would appear still is today.

John Major the man who was shagging Edwina Currie whilst undertaking a 'back to basics' campaign for the rest of us mugs and plebs.. A bigger hypocrite you will find difficult to unearth.

 

As much as I'm voting out, and I know this is going to be unpopular, but I do agree with MTG here in the Leave campaign's exploitation of the army argument, as if those who fought are now losing everything they fought for. They fought for us not to be taken over and essentially invaded by a bunch of racists, not specifically to enhance our sovereignty. Even if we stay in, we still have sovereignty in that we still have a multi-party democracy, we just lose the ultimate decision on our international laws to the EU. Not that I'm happy with it, but it's completely different to what our grandfathers fought for. You could argue the same about any war prior to that, back in the years when the King/Queen had ultimate power and democracy was nothing more than an illusion.

I obviously don't mean to offend anyone in that regard but it's the way I see it. It in no way lessens my view or respect for those who fought for us.

 

But you've written on it in well put text, what MTG does is show lack of respect.

 

My father (yes my father!) went up the Normandy beaches on D- day and I can assure you he was doing that in order to protect our (Mine, as 1 of his children although I wasn't near to being born then) way of life.. Germany wanted to invade and control Europe as a super power and has all but succeeded now but without the Tanks and bombs.

Democracy has been with us since the English Civil war.. believe me after that democracy was everything, parliament held the power. We have meekly given all these things to Europe without even having a say in doing so. Now we have a say, I won't be wasting mine.

Read your history.. if you want to know where we are going, you need to know where we came from. good and bad!

 

My Grandfather and Uncle were the type of principled union men that barely exist anymore They fought for democracy. Being told what to do by a Foreign power, and that is what the EU has become would have been poison to the mind.

 

Drove to Manchester and back last evening, spotted 31 leave posters and banners including a massive one outside Walsall ground on electric board .... coming back my count was lower as it was dark and 46 miles of road works to negotiate .. so possibly another 6 I didn't see on way up
stay now STAY posters still counting any advance on zero .....

 

Pure desperation from a beaten man - George Osborne threatens another austerity budget, to be implemented immediately after a vote for Brexit.

This outrageous threat to Britons who want their country back is nothing short of financial terrorism and Britons should vote Leave to rid themselves of a government that would act in this manner.

N.B It has taken Vote Leave just one hour to secure signatures of 58 MPs who would vote against this outrageous “punishment” budget, and that’s just the Tories!

A vote to leave is a vote to oust Cameron and his cronies.

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It's reasonable to prepare for such an instance. The uncertaincy with leaving has a high chance of causing damaging affects on the economy.

I'd say it is ignorance from out voters to dismiss the possibility of a recession post Brexit

 

It is never reasonable to threaten the vulnerable. That is what is happening.

 

Agreed that austerity I'd bad. It is not a threat just a possibility that has a high probability of becoming reality

 

George Osbourne is threatening vulnerable people with a possibility amongst numerous variables. That is wrong.

Recession and austerity have been part of Britain's membership of the EU. A fact. Not a possibility.

 

No its a threat. He is saying he will do it and explained in detail how he will do it. Tax to go up and cuts to the NHS are just 2 of the things he said he will do. This to me is blackmail. He is saying if we vote out he will make these changes. That's disgusting. Even Corbyn has come out and said labour will vote against it.

 

If you leave we will give you more austerity. The austerity they put in place. The Remain campaign have acted like bigoted pub drunks talking down the pound, talking down the UK, slagging its populace off as racists if they disagree. Their behaviour may well have precipitated a recession whatever the result.

It’s a stream of bile. Threatening rhetoric to scare the disabled, the old folk. Pensions, bus passes, disability payments and tv licences. Nothing is safe for you if the UK leaves the EU.

Miserable and grubby.

Meanwhile Dodgy Dave refuses to answer very simple questions as migration is seeing the population rise. Will the PM increase spending on the NHS to service this massive influx and secondly will he create the housing needed for uncontrolled immigration into the UK from the EU.

 

For the undecided

A good friend of mine came up with a great idea. If you don't have the time/inclination to find out all the facts about the EU referendum (I don't blame you) and are possibly unsure which way to vote, perhaps knowing how other notable people are thinking could help out.

Here are a few that strongly believe the UK should remain a member of the EU:

• Governor of the Bank of England
• International Monetary Fund
• Institute for Fiscal Studies
• Confederation of British Industry
• Leaders/heads of state of every single other member of the EU
• President of the United States of America
• Eight former US Treasury Secretaries
• President of China
• Prime Minister of India
• Prime Minister of Canada
• Prime Minister of Australia
• Prime Minister of Japan
• Prime Minister of New Zealand
• The chief executives of most of the top 100 companies in the UK including Marks and Spencer, BT, Asda, Vodafone, Virgin, IBM, BMW etc.
• Kofi Annan, the former Secretary General of the United Nations
• All living former Prime Ministers of the UK (from both parties)
• Virtually all reputable and recognised economists
• The Prime Minister of the UK
• The leader of the Labour Party
• The Leader of the Liberal Democrats
• The Leader of the Green Party
• The Leader of the Scottish National Party
• The leader of Plaid Cymru
• Leader of Sinn Fein
• Martin Lewis, that money saving dude off the telly
• The Secretary General of the TUC
• Unison
• National Union of Students
• National Union of Farmers
• Stephen Hawking
• Chief Executive of the NHS
• 300 of the most prominent international historians
• Director of Europol
• David Anderson QC, Independent Reviewer of Terrorism Legislation
• Former Directors of GCHQ
• Secretary General of Nato
• Church of England
• Church in Scotland
• Church in Wales
• Friends of the Earth
• Greenpeace
• Director General of the World Trade Organisation
• WWF
• World Bank
• OECD

Here are pretty much the only notable people who think we should leave the EU:

• Boris Johnson, who probably doesn’t really care either way, but knows he’ll become Prime Minister if the country votes to leave
• A former Secretary of State for Work and Pensions who carried out a brutal regime of cuts to benefits and essential support for the poorest in society as well as the disabled and sick
• That idiot that was Education Secretary and every single teacher in the country hated with a furious passion for the damage he was doing to the education system
• Leader of UKIP
• BNP
• Britain First
• Donald Trump
• Keith Chegwin
• David Icke

So, as I said, if you can’t be bothered to look into the real facts and implications of all this in/out stuff, just pick the list that you most trust and vote that way. It really couldn’t be more simple.

And if you are unsure about leaving, don't.

Please repost this list, if you think it might help.

 

Many international papers such as Washington post questioning the sanity of those wanting out.