The trouble is notdistant that if you don't dive all over the place then you know the opposition will and you will pay. How sad it is to say that but there is so much of it now that you almost have to indulge yourself. We have had this discussion many times and it is the players and managers who are at fault not the Refs. It is hard on the Ref as most of the incidents happen at 100 miles per hour. Compounded by the obligatory roll around the floor clutching whatever part of the anatomy you claim was cleavered off your body. The football authorities could review fouls after a game if they chose to do so. Most matches are covered by a multitude of cameras so incidents are photographed from a dozen different angles. When it is proved a player dived then they could give them a Red in retrospect and a 3 match ban. If it involved a penalty and a win then deduct the points and reverse the result no matter what it was at the end. If they still lost then deduct points anyway. I'll bet managers would be kicked ass all day long to stop it happening.
Living on a Yank compound, have to put up with the tennis at the bloody moment unless the only other arse licking Brit decides to change channels tonight at least!
I have another suggestion Sensible, which I have mentioned before. It gets poo-poo'd because it's seen as too draconian but this cheating is eating away at football from the inside. 1) Club/team medical staff should be banned from entering the pitch except in an emergency declared by the referee. 2) An official expert para-medical team should be in place at all matches - in practice this might mean all major matches [e.g. Premier League & equivalent, European club competitions & Internationals] where there's the money to pay for it. But those are the games televised where cheating is most visible and therefore corrosive, particularly to youngsters. 3) The para-medical team would be called on by the referee immediately he felt it necessary to stop play for an injured player. The custom of returning the ball to the other side if it's kicked out should be banned. If you kick it out, the other side get to play on normally. Drop balls to restart after the ref had stopped play would be contested. 4) The role of the para-medical team would be to assess the injury and safely evacuate any injured player from the pitch is the shortest possible time, not to treat him, subject to stabilising any injury. All players causing a stoppage would be required to leave the field, it's not optional. 5) Once off the pitch, the player would be handed over to club officials for treatment but would not be allowed to return to the field for a minimum of 5 minutes, to be administered by the 4th official. 6) Players who left the field for treatment without causing a stoppage in play would be allowed to return immediately at the referees discretion. We'd soon see who was injured then and who wasn't. Playing for 5 minutes with 10 men is the only adequate weapon to stop cheats rolling in feigned agony to waste time or get an opponent booked. Given the terrible injuries that players seem to suffer from minor contacts, it's in their own interests that there should be sufficient time to treat them properly. If they are as badly hurt as they look, they can't have it both ways. If fake injuries are discouraged, so will the diving that goes with it.
Very good notDistant.......sounds about right,....... also any so called injured player doing a high tariff fall with multiple rolls should be red carded.......and made to play rugby to toughen them up.
The point is that you'll never get refs to distinguish between fouls and dives, the risk to them of letting a "real" foul go in front of 49 TV cameras is just too much for them. So, take the decision away from them altogether and treat the symptom [the feigned injuries] rather than the dive itself. A dive isn't half so persuasive without the swallow dive, the screams and the rolling about is it? OK, it's tough on the teams that suffer genuine injuries from fouls but then, they all dive don't they, so if they won't clean up their own acts, someone needs to do it for them. On the subject of draconian penalties, any ex-pro pundit who refers to cheating as "going down a bit easily" or "he drew the foul there" or "made a bit of meal of that" should be taken out and summarily executed. It's "diving" or preferably "cheating", OK?
Watched the Czech v Greece match.......what a load of old tosh..............Greece cannot start playing until they have dug themselves into a hole......what rubbish.
No doubt there will be plenty more less than average matches yet plym. I have watched every match so far hoping it will all improve but so far the only really good match has been Russia. Not too bad tonight either against Poland. I kind of kept waiting for the match to kick off in some way but thought the players were quite restrained considering the atmosphere in the Stadium.
It kicked off outside the stadium sensible.......riot police the lot..........years of communist dictatorship boiling over.......this was never just a football match.......but as you said things were quite restrained fortunately.
So NDG if I am reading that right if a player gets fouled and hurt you propose that the fouled player and his team is punished? Often a player will get an injury that needs treatment but not substitution cramp, smack to the head, winded or even a kick in the happy sacks will pretty much leave you flat out and needing some onfield treatment but really dont see that you should be punished with a 5 minute sin bin as well. As for the treatment of players the teams all have highly trained and well payed medical support would it be feasible to have a simlilarrly qualified team to commit to either part time work or a 90 minute working week. Sorry cannot see that working I dislike the cheating as much as any but it is only the teams and players who can stamp it out. What really bugs me is that every manager will several times over the season complain about referees decisions when it their players who make it a nigh on impossible job for the ref.
Yes that's exactly what I'm proposing. Let me ask you what proportion of delays due to injury you think are genuine and how many bogus? I think 50:50 would be generous to the honesty of today's players. Anyway, it's the club's own fault. If they dissuaded their players from cheating, we wouldn't have the problem. There's plenty of money in the Premier League, the Euro competitions and internationals to pay for it. Anyway, I'm sure the model in motor-sport could be followed: there's a qualified doctor on every corner at major events. They aren't getting paid and neither do the marshalls they support, they volunteer because they have an interest in the sport. How many more have an interest in football?
Thinking about my proposal [I haven't sent it off to my mate Sep at FIFA's modest headquarters yet http://www.soccerphile.com/soccerphile/euro2008/switzerland-images/im/switzerland-39.jpg http://www.kckrs.com/wp-content/uploads/fifa_hq.png ], there could be a few tweaks to mollify those who don't get as aerated as me about cheating: 1) I've already said the delayed return wouldn't apply to players who left the field under their own steam without stopping play 2) It could also be restricted to cases where a) the ref deemed treatment necessary OR b) cases where either the player concerned or his captain or his manager requested a stoppage & his removal from the field 3) Maybe 5 minutes could be 3 minutes but it has to be enough to be a deterrent. 4) If it was 5 minutes, this could include the time taken in treatment, that usually wastes 2 or 3 minutes of the game anyway, but this would be off the field, not on. If the poor guy doesn't actually need any treatment and spends 5 minutes kicking his heels, well then that tends to suggest he was indeed making it up all along. Watching Mueller & Robben practice for a second careers in high board diving whilst masquerading as international footballers last night was a salutary reminder why something needs to be done. The whole point is that refs should be given the minimum discretion - they'll only bottle the whole thing.
It is disappointing to see even gifted players do the old trip from behind as an opponent breaks clear from them.......as if they couldn't avoid getting tangled up with the opponents legs. The referee just gives a free kick without any sign of admonishment to the offending player. The free kick by then is totally pointless, any advantage gained has gone in that moment and any goal threat as well. It is blatant cheating and must be severely dealt with by the referee....yellow card territory.....do it twice and your off to test the bath water temperature. The pulling back of a player is even more on the cheating scale........problem is of course that it is quite often done on the referee's blind side.......so where is the assistant referee on that side of the pitch. You can of course go on and on........it always amazes me how Gary Lineker who had his share of success in the big time, here and on the continent never ever got booked ( I hope my memory is'nt failing me there) yet he got his share of clobbering from behind and never responded. I always remember that time when Paul Gascoigne got wound up against W Germany and got sent off......and the look that Lineker gave the German bench.
That's two more games done and dusted. What is it about teams in green and singing their hearts out. The Irish support is superb and at 4 - 0 down they upped the volume. Fantastic to see and hear. Pity their players didn't stand a chance from the outset. I kept waiting for the stat for passes to be shown but it wasn't. It must have been so one sided that it would have been embarrassing to put it up on screen. Wasn't impressed with either Italy or Croatia particularly but it will be the usual write off the Italians at your peril.
You should be thankful notDistant.........sensible has saved you time to do other things.......two more games done and dusted.
Come on England great result if not a tad never racking. The boys doing the business as I predicted...well almost. Good to see the youngsters out there and doing a decent job three great goals.
Well that's group A over and done with then. Bit of a turn up for the book but in my mind it serves the Russians right for sitting back and thinking they had qualified. I watched the Chec v Poland match as I thought the other one was going to be a no contest. To be fair the one I chose was a no contest. Poland looked clueless for the whole 90 minutes and the opposition didn't even have to try until Greece scored and they heard about it. I thought, considering it was on Polish soil that they would give everything in this one and die trying. Talk about going out with a whimper. Lesson for England. Don't play for a draw.
Group B sorted now and no particular surprises in that one either except maybe the Dutch not even getting one point. I stayed tuned for a few minutes to see if civil war broke out but they couldn't even do that. Ronaldo is an arrogant git but he derserved his plaudits tonight as he was absolutely up for it in this match. Dutch just looked lost. Didn't bother with the Germany v Denmark match as I thought that was a forgone conclusion as it turned out to be but it did look result wise as if they were at least given a match. Group C doesn't look that interesting as one team is bust already but will have to watch as I've watched it all so far.
Is nobody else watching this competition? Group C over now with Spain and Italy qualifying. No great shocks there then. Thought Croatia were a tad unlucky tonight to lose at least. Spain did not look great with all their tippy tappy passing the ball backwards and sideways. One more group to go but I saw an advert for it on the Beeb tonight. They gave it the Merlin style treatment and showed Rooney with red eyes as if he is the sourcerer's apprentice. What a load of bollocks. Fingers crossed then.
