A study by the University of Salford in 2013 suggested there was a "conservative" figure close to 200,000 Roma living in the UK. As many move around the UK staying at different sites I'm not sure how they manage to supply HMRC with their details so they can pay taxes which in turn pay for services provided, including the NHS.
Once again SH has admitted that he doesn't know something that he has pontificated about on here. Once he stops giving his opinions that he cannot back up, and comes forward with some facts based on sound evidence, then maybe he will be taken as a serious contributor, but until then it becomes very difficult to hold a proper discussion. To simply repeat the same old things again and again doesn't show that he is interested in getting to the bottom of problems that the government are facing. I doubt that he will be asked to face a Commons or Lords committee to give evidence in the near future
Just a couple of myths which need clearing up here SH. Firstly the vast majority of Gypsies living in the UK. are not foreign - ie. they were mostly born in the UK. Secondly, the question of crime. Members of Gypsy communities are statistically underrepresented in the prison population of the UK. It is unlikely that there is a strong correlation between Rumanian nationality and being a Gypsy, why, because so many Rumanian Gypsies did not have passports or relevent documents. Even in Germany they only got nationality back in the 1990s. We have come so far over the last 200 years - we have confronted the anti semitism of the past, the homophobia, the distrust of disabled people - yet still the Gypsy is reviled as much as ever, and stereotypes, which would be forbidden about others, are cast onto them with abandon. My wife's father was a violin maker for many years in Cologne, and this is a profession which will attract Gypsies like no other. So, there were lots of them around. The business was taken over by 2 Hungarian Gypsies when he died - they are still in the same place, and we have lots of contact to them and their families. Not a thief amongst them - all tax payers, and wonderfull people
Nobody knows how many Romanian gypsies have arrived in the UK, including you. It is you that has a serious problem digesting facts which you obviously don't like. Everybody else understands the facts regarding the UK ditching the single market and now the customs union. How you have managed to miss the same message from the scores of politicians from leave, remain, including the Prime Minister, Chancellor and eurocrats I cannot imagine. They all stated in English, that a vote to leaves MEANS leaving the single market. I'm not sure if you are hoping to wake up and find it is all a bad dream but you still seem to believe it is 22nd June.
I wonder if there is a connection between alcohol consumption and rationality one here? Incidentally there was a great news bite i heard today on breakfast TV and cant source online as of now.... that employment is at its highest for many years and that included several hundred thousand workers from the EU... and that WITHOUT these workers many businesses would really struggle.... and a high percentage of these workers are skilled and unskilled manual workers....
It was you who wished to discuss gypsies not me, but I asked you to support your statements. Who apart from the Foreign Secretary has said we will be ditching the single market and the customs union, and he comes up with something different every day. The Prime Minister was asked about this today and refused to give an answer. The people at the heart of this know that they cannot come up with a solution that will keep you happy without making a total mess of the UK economy, which is why there are many reports of the Brexit ministers being at odds with the Treasury.
I think there is a harsh reality between the BREXIT fantasy and fiscal reality and that is a major part of this and the real problems Govt are having
Well we know that in your case that is medicine my friend... ditto a couple of glasses of NZ Marlborough Sauvignon up here
Maybe, wine is cheap and freely available in France. The good news is that despite the ludicrous claims to the contrary the UK is enjoying good growth, highest level of employment and continuing investment from multinational companies. Nearly every short term negative prediction after Brexit has been proved wrong.
You need to read up on the rules of the customs union. All of the senior government, including the PM, have clearly stated that the UK will seek and complete UK only deals with many countries around the world. As you would know if you had done some research, it is not permissible for custom union members to make individual deals with other nations. So although the PM has not specifically ruled out being a member of the customs union, it does not take much wit to work out the outcome.
Not yet. I doubt if our PM can achieve her promised objectives of full border control, sovereignty, and a halt to subsidising Brussels and the UK become an associate member of the EU, hopefully we can. The UK would also require to be able to conclude trade deals with other nations, and even explore the possibility of joining the North Atlantic free trade area. Donald Tusk must have also ruled this option out when he clearly proclaimed "Hard Brexit or no Brexit.
Post Brexit, leaving the customs union is a no-brainer The Financial Times has reported that there is a “live debate” in Whitehall around whether the UK should leave the customs union with the EU or not, following the result of the EU referendum. Open Europe examined this issue in detail 18 months ago. There is little doubt that, if it is going to leave the EU, it should leave the customs union. It’s concerning the UK government is still debating such issues, argues Raoul Ruparel. Brexit, Trade, UK-EU Negotiations Blog RSS Feed the Financial Times, the UK’s new International Trade Secretary Liam Fox also made it clear that he wanted the UK to leave the customs union in an interview with the Wall Street Journal. Raising questions as to why he felt the need to make such a statement, despite it seeming to be a given. There will be an impact to leaving the customs union but it is not prohibitive In our seminal Brexit report published 18 months ago we investigated and modelled this impact in depth – one of the few Brexit reports to actually pay attention to the issue. What we found is that, in the long run (up to 2030), there will be a permanent cost to leaving the customs union. This cost is around 1% to 1.2% GDP (see table below which shows the cost of border in the scenario where the UK negotiates a liberal free trade agreement with the EU). please log in to view this image The cost comes in the form of the imposition of new time and out-of-pocket expense on cross-border trade, for example time spent at customs and the administrative cost of getting through customs. The admin cost will largely arise from what’s known as ‘rules of origin’, if the UK ends up securing a free trade deal with the rest of the EU. These rules essentially enforce the EU’s external border in countries where it has a free trade agreement (FTA). It must be proven that goods and products exported into the EU from the UK are truly UK produced (or at least the majority of inputs are from the UK) – otherwise people could simply import from the rest of the world with lower tariffs and then export into the EU single market. This therefore clearly involves admin before goods are shipped and checks at the border. As highlghted in the illustration below (from our Trading Places report), if these requirements aren’t met then the relative tariffs will have to be paid. please log in to view this image Importantly, nearly all of this is a cost which will occur no matter what is negotiated between the UK and the EU and it is a dead weight cost for the economy (not a transfer as with tariffs). This goes someway to explaining why there is always likely to be a small negative cost to leaving the EU in the long run. But this cost is clearly not prohibitively high. Furthermore, as shown above, both Norway and Switzerland are outside the EU’s customs union and do significant levels of trade with the EU – over 70% of Norway’s total trade is with the EU for example. So while it will take some adjustment, it is far from impossible to adjust to. The biggest unknown is the impact on cross border supply chains. Introducing this new cost in terms of a customs border and associated admin may change the nature of supply chains and mean areas which added value before no longer do. That said, this area needs far more investigation and the data is poor. If the value added is not easily replicable elsewhere, then less disruption can be expected. The alternatives are less palatable Furthermore, the alternative approach of staying in the customs union but trying to leave the EU also makes little sense. It means the UK would not be able to strike its own trade deals. This significantly limits the scope for offsetting the other costs of leaving the EU – potentially reduced access to the single market for example. (As I outlined in a briefing yesterday, there opportunities out there in terms of global trade.) Within this there are only really two paths which could make this work: Be like Turkey – one option would be to adopt the Turkish model, inside the customs union but outside the single market. This would maintain tariff free, border free and rules of origin free trade in goods between the UK and the EU. It could also mean an end to free movement. However, it would mean the UK could not negotiate its own free trade deals and would have to accept whatever the EU agrees to with other parties. The UK would have no say in the negotiation of those deals either. The UK would also have no say over the EU’s rules on tariffs or on product standards despite being bound by them. It also includes no provision for services, meaning the UK would be entirely out of the EU single market for this. Essentially stay in the EU – the other alternative is to try to stay in the customs union but also negotiate an FTA with the EU or even adopt some version of the EEA (similar to Norway). But under such a scenario the UK might as well simply stay in the EU as there would be very little difference other than potentially repatriating control over small areas such as fisheries and agriculture. Why are we still talking about this? As laid out above, there is a cost of leaving the customs union but it is not all that high in the long run. The alternative would mean being in a far from optimal position with little room for manoeuvre or essentially staying in the EU. The former would be economically disruptive and the latter would be politically explosive. The only real question then is why this is even a “live debate” in Whitehall? It is concerning that, at this stage, the UK government seems to still be debating the most basic tenets of Brexit when the time is upon us to be drafting a detailed approach. This ship sailed some time ago. The focus needs to be on judging what level of single market access UK businesses really need and how that can be married with the democratic vote in the referendum. Let’s pull our collective fingers out shall we. This makes interesting reading.
Worth noting SH. that Norway, Switzerland and Iceland all have free movement of people with the EU. in exchange for access to the European market. Norway and Switzerland both have higher rates of EU. immigration than Britain does - If the UK. were the same as Switzerland it would be taking in 400,000 more EU. immigrants per year. Iceland is part of Schengen. So, there really is no precedent for the aims that the Brexiters have. If you want to put up the drawbridge then you will have to pay for it ie. you will no longer have free access to European markets - that is as much fact as anything you have said about Brexit meaning Brexit. Unfortunately you, and a few bozo's like BJ have not cottoned on yet. Making individual trade deals with other countries can only be started once negotiations have been finally concluded with the EU. ie. 2019/20 at the earliest - and these, once started, will take time. At the moment the economy is doing ok. because Brexit has not started yet, and because the longer it is postponed the more the suspicion arises that it may not actually happen. Up to now all that has happened is we have a non binding referendum result and subsequently a lot of brave words coming from frightened mouths.
Rather than pull up the drawbridge the UK will co-operate and create trade deals with many countries which the EU has so far failed to do. It will be difficult, most Brexiteers accept that, but still look forward to the opportunities especially since Trump was elected. There is absolutely no chance Brexit will not happen, it is foolish to hope otherwise. You will cotton on at some stage, maybe by the end of March. I fully accept the UK will not have duty free access to EU markets.
Perhaps I should have said 'very unlikely to have tariff free access', There is always a chance however slim. It depends how quickly we get over the macho nasty stage and how strong the pragmatic voice will be. I am well aware they want to make an example of the UK to bully others from leaving but ultimately how much will they want to damage their own markets. I would expect the EU will show a united front initially but self interest from certain EU countries will emerge as we reach the final stages. We also have the possibility of further shocks in Europe which, like Trump being elected, will assist the UK's bargaining position.
I wish it wasn't happening but also interested in how this will all pan out. Crass, I know, but it keeps feeling like a new football season to me.
Shame we move from community to self-interest... We all know the results of self-interest across the globe
