Is it just me, or has Massa suddenly become a very dirty driver? It seems to me that he's started to try and run people off the road on purpose, if side by side with someone he will make an adjustment mid corner to put them off the track. He's done it in every GP so far, will the stewards do something about it, or do they all feel sorry for him over 2009 and give him the 'benefit of the doubt'. Sooner or later he's going to cause a big accident.
I haven't noticed that he's getting particularly dirtier. Like other drivers, Massa's okay when he's on pole and leading the race, less so when he has to fight for position. I've never thought of him among the top flight of drivers and I think only a superior car in 2008 and Raikkonen's woeful dereliction of duty allowed Massa anywhere near a fight for the WDC with Hamilton. Under normal circumstances Massa couldn't hold a candle to Hamilton. So I don't think he's any dirtier, probably just as clumsy as he's always been.
He's a bit clumsy at times, but I though he completely deserved to win the WDC in 2008, Hamilton should have won it 2007.
Cars were pretty much equal, if any had an advantage it was the McLaren which had a short wheel base allowing it dominance on twisty tracks (Monaco) and wet tracks (silverstone), Ferrari had fewer tracks suiting their longer wheelbase configuration. Still, but for the Renault induced safety car shambles of Singapore and a last gasp engine failure in Hungary (two tracks that suited McLaren down to the ground but Massa was somehow quicker) chances are Lewis would sill be currently WDCless. While there were undoubted moments of brilliance that defined Hamilton's season that year, its amazing how quick his fans are to dismiss the large role lady luck played in his title challenge that year
Um Jackie I think everyone realises, apart from the Nazi sympathisers, that bar the ridiculous penalties Lewis unfairly suffered, he would have walked away with the title and he was clearly the class of the field. I realise you are just another failed reaction to the Lewis fanboys, but give it a rest man and just appreciate the drivers for what they are, and not get your panties in a twist when someone says summat you don't like.
I think it's worth bearing in mind that it's likely that Massa is fighting for his seat at Ferrari. He's much more "fighty" this year as he knows that he has to do something to show he's capable of mixing it at the front.
I think Massa is trying to make sense of what he perceives other more successful drivers achieving. However, what we are speaking of here (commonly known as 'racecraft') has never been part of his strong suit. In this sense, he is trying to force something which does not come naturally. He is a very quick, passionate but mentally fragile driver - which leads to inconsistency. And this was before his terrible accident. Since then he has struggled to get back to where he was. He is a fighter and is trying everything he knows including some things he does not know so well. He is naturally quick, but unless given the advantages currently enjoyed by someone like Vettel where he can lead from the front, his weaknesses as a 'racer' will tend to hold him back. N.B. 'Racer' is an important distinction from a driver who is simply very quick. [Edit: As a footnote, I disagree that Massa is "dirty". I would proffer that 'dirtiness' is deliberate and that Massa's moves are more inept than deliberate. - The antithesis of Schumacher, who at times has actually pretended to be inept!]
I do sorta see what you mean Cosi, it could simply be just a symptom of his erratic inconsistency (which, as you say, has always been there, good driver but not WDC material in my eyes), but it does keep happening though, he's crossed the line in every race. He's tried to run nearly everyone he's battled with off the road, so much so that I cheered when (Rosberg? I think) gave him a taste of it back in shanghai.
What? Massa dirty tendencies! I think you are confusing deliberate and underhand selfish and often dangerous tactics (the obvious Schuey ) which went on for years - with a few upstarts learning how to block, edge out, touch wheels etc. In this last race guess who was quite prepared to puncture a driver's tyre with his front wing ! But nothing gets said. Even DC was mild over criticism.
It was good viewing, and I'm glad he didn't get penalised. There are too many rules in the sport now and it's ruining it. Some day a bunch of weathly Arabs who want to sell as much oil as possible are going to get together with someone like newscorp and wipe the floor with the sevearly dumbed down sport that F1 is fast becoming. And when their rival race series turns up with rules that govern just the safety aspect of the sport and not the technological, F1 will just turn into yet another driving formula without its "pinicle of technology" title. Something I feel it lost a long time ago.
What do you reacon the pinical formula of motor sport is then? I would say maybe Le Mans but they are dumbing down a bit to get new manufacturers in. Or maybe Indy but they are turning into a single chassis, single engine supplied level pegging sport.
When Button overtook Massa for I think the second time and then Massa locked up I thought there was going to be another 'Vettel t-bone' for Button for a moment. I do not think that Massa is getting dirty per se, just more dogged and desperate, which perhaps is more dangerous because it is less predictable.
I still think F1 is the pinacle, but equally its not as quick as it could be. Given a blank sheet of paper, I'm sure F1 designers could design cars with weird and wonderful aero on it and super powerful engines so every corner can be taken at 200mph, although safety then becomes the issue. I don't think designing the aero would actually cost that much more, I'm sure it wouldn't take that great a leap to have all aero devices on the car moving, to give next to no downforce on the straights, and just enough for the corners, but the g force and proximity to barriers would have a serious impact. Can you imagine those cars around Monaco? You'd need massive run off areas to get away with it, which leads to dull tracks.
Apart from one "unjustified penalty", that term being debatable, what other incidents were there? How many points did Hamilton lose from that penalty? a measly 4! How many did Massa lose through those two incidents of misfortune? A potential 20. In that case if Massa hadn't been so unfortunate Hamilton could have kept his Spa 1st and still Massa would be WDC before they even got to Brazil.
cosicave, I agree with what you've said. So-called "dirty" tactics have never been something Massa has used to deliberately run another driver off the road. I think that because he is fighting to keep his seat at Ferrari, he is trying as hard as he can to prove himself. I am surprised though that the stewards didn't even investigate the incident in the pit lane in Turkey, but you could say that it wasn't Massa's fault.
Absolutely. The reality is that all that is required of any 'summit' is to be the highest point. There is no need for any 'pinnacle' which sits on top, to build an Eiffel Tower to still be on top. Unfortunately for the purists, as the greater landscape of motor racing classifications - which sit beneath the pinnacle - are 'dumbed-down', F1 can afford to chip away at itself without submerging. Yes, it could be higher; but it doesn't need to be in order to maintain its view from the highest point.
To be fair Hamilton had a similar incident twice last year and suffered no penalty, so I think it was fair and consistent that Massa did not either.
I know, I'm only kidding. I wonder how much the stewards have to think about precedents when they decide if something is dangerous or not? If Hamilton last year had been penalised, would the stewards then have to penalise every similar instance in future races? It'd seem unfair otherwise, and give the teams grounds to appeal.
