Hi guys, I would just like to post on your forums and let you know that I think you deserve to go up this season, I don't think it will be at the expense of us although throughout the season Cardiff, Hull and Watford have deserved promotion purely down to the hard work and consistency. I have been a member of these forums for a whole but I had to make a new account since you cannot connect with Facebook I lost my main account! Noticed a few idiots from Hull city have been coming on here and rubbing your noses in it, just ignore them they are not true hull city supporters, even football supporters! I think you will hammer Millwall tonight, in fact I'm almost certain. Fingers crossed we can get a result away at Wolves. Either way best of luck in the play offs (i'm hoping) and I'm confident we will meet in the premier league next season. Come on you hull!
Thanks for your post - in fact we have found most Hull and indeed Cardiff fans to be very good, fair and honest in their posts. You get a few idiots /WUMs in every club but that is to be expected. Not sure about tonight - we need to re-group in order to be ready for the play offs - I think the chance of Hull slioppin up enoug to give us another chance at an automatic place is unlikely - but we can live in hope. Good luck next year
You don't have to slag-off your fellow supporters to show respect to our opponents. City and Watford fans have had a decent relationship all season and the balance between banter and mature conversation has been good. For me Watford would be my preferred choice to also go up (if we can get over the line), except that I can't accept the situation regarding foreign loans. I know it has all been said, but although Watford have acted within the existing rules the ownership of Italian and Spanish clubs by the Pozzo family has given you an advantage that no other club has had an equal opportunity to emulate. If others could have done the same there would be no argument, but the season might as well have started with everyone else on minus 15 points. That is unfair.
Craig, if no rules have been broken, how can it be unfair? Watford have done nothing that any other team in the division could have exploited, given the same vision!
I did say that no rule had been broken, but it's not true "that any other team in the division could have exploited, given the same vision!" No club's owners could have suddenly also owned formidable Italian and Spanish clubs with an opportunity to utilise their players. If you could demonstrate a realistic way that any other club had the chance to exploit the rules to the extent that Watford have I would reconsider my opinion.
Thanks for kind wishes but as Canary implies you then have muddled thinking. In fact EVERY other club could emulate it. All they have to do is find foreign clubs who will loan players - should not be that hard to do. Of course it is easier from clubs owned by your owner but that then comes down to wealth. You could have stated that Cardiff have an unfair advantage by having Malaysian owners who have got £83million debt in the club. How equal and fair is that? For years Watford have been struggling against Administration so could not compete with that and what happened our Manager debunked to Cardiff taking the back room and some players with him - money talks.
Every other team can do the same if they want. It's just Watford considered it a good opportunity first. I'm sure if your team had gone to Barcelona and asked if you could have half a dozen players on loan, and they let you, you would say it's a fantastic piece of business and great forward-thinking. It's looking like this rule might not be changed either, although I don't really expect us to have the numbers we had next season - no matter which division we are in! And as for the 15 points... well, you could say we gave most teams a good 15 point head-start on us seeming we were trying to implement a new manager, a new style of football, with a number of new players. They took a while to bed in, and I think the table would be a little different if they had that understanding from day one. Thats all a moot point anyway. The table doesn't lie. At the moment Cardiff and Hull deserve to go up automatically, and we deserve to be the third team to go up. Unforunately it looks like we have the lottery of the play-offs.
Is it fair that some clubs manage to find owners who for reasons best known to themselves are prepared to pump millions into clubs while others are left to pick up the journey men players and try to make a go of it? Championship clubs are currently in debt to something over £1 billion an unsustainable situation, yet the new owners at Watford have not spent millions, they have lent us a few players instead. What is the difference?
The argument of wealth giving certain clubs an advantage is justified, and hopefully FFP will create a fairer situation on that score. However two wrongs don't make a right and this argument doesn't mitigate the policy of Watford this season. You're of course right that any club had the opportunity to go for foreign loans (and my club have taken two from Egypt), but the lower quality of foreign players available to Championship clubs (and no doubt the fees / wages applicable) make it far less practical for clubs that don't have multiple-club ownerships. So again Watford are in a unique position and not one that others had the chance to copy.
I think you over estimate the size of Udinese and Granada. Udinese play in front of lower crowds than Watford quite often - and ours are not good even for the Championship. Granada were a third tier Spanish side two or three years ago. We are not borrowing from big powerful clubs like Barcelona. It is ONLY money that allows the Pozzos to have sufficient players to loan some between clubs so it comes back to wealth and if you follow OFH's argument then we just borrowing instead of buying. You say two wrongs dont make a right - but I dont consider Watford's policy to be wrong - it is not only within the rules - not by a loophole but the FL deliberately DEFINED foreign loans as transfers - that did not happen by accident - they wanted it. I have to say I do not know why they think a loan from a foreign club should be considered differently to one from a British club - that is a question to put to the FL - not Watford. We have obeyed both the rules and the spirit of the rules.
That's the point. Neither Barcelona nor any other decent foreign club would be willing to loan their players to a Championship club in normal circumstances, and if by some chance they were the loan fee / wages would be too high to consider. That is the situation the rest of the Championship have to live with, but Watford's advantageous situation means they aren't equally restricted.
To be fair Craig, I think if it wasn;t us doing it, a number of fans wouldn't exactly agree with it, but begrudgingly say fair play to them for using such a rule to thier advantage! What I would say though, is that I would honestly prefer this way of doing it than an owner spending tens of millions of pounds on transfers and wages creating a huge amount of debt with the chance that they could just up and walk out on them. Look at Pompey - yes they had some good times, but until recently, I think most fans would give up the FA Cup to be a stable Championship club, with responsible owners. Many fans don't like what our owners have done this season - but it's far better than some of the alternatives!
I wish people would stop jumping on Holloway's bandwagon. Watford team at Posh on Saturday (* = from English clubs this season, ** = with us last season, but didn't come through our ranks, *** = came through our ranks) Almunia*, Doyley**, Pudil, Cassetti, Chalobah* (loan from Chelsea, turned 18 during season), Ekstrand, Hogg**, Anya, Abdi, Deeney**, Forestieri Substitutes: Bond***, Thompson***, Yeates**, Murray***, Buaben**, Battocchio, Vydra Only 8 of the players do not have stars next to their name and, if they'd been fit, it is likely that one of Nosworthy**, Hall* or Hoban*** may have been playing instead of Ekstrand.
So Leicester, Forest Cardiff - even yourselves have millions of pounds of debt but could not afford to borrow (as opposed to buy) players from "minor" clubs in Europe's top divisions - I may have missed the loans we have from Real Madrid, Barcelona and Inter Milan
But don't Man Utd have a link-up with a foreign club where they send plenty of their young players? Is it Anderlecht or Antwerp? Maybe you will see more of these relationships between clubs if they become more aware of such a rule. Say for example all the players Chelsea have out on loan this season; would it not be sensible to send 6-8 to the same team so they can build up a playing relationship with each other in the hope they'd come back with a good understanding? I think that is why it has worked quite well with us, that many of the players already knew each other, and have fitted into our squad very well. Yes we get these players for 'free' for a year, but I doubt Man Utd charge the club they have a relationship with for the players, because they are benefitting from it as well. I suspect it would come under the terms of the relationship, that they'd take all these players at the same time as long as they don't have to pay anything significant for them.
You haven't and won't hear an argument from me that Watford have acted illegally or even that they have been devious. The policy of Watford is perfectly legitimate relating to the rules as they stand. However like most older supporters I like to think that there is still an unwritten code of good-sportsmanship within the game. This is where I believe Watford have failed to value the ideals of fair competition.
Well we may as well stop Man City, Chelsea and Man Utd. from spending millions as its unfair to the other clubs. It is not about being fair, fair is go find yourselves owners like Cardiff and Watford and if you can`t ask yourself why they don`t want to invest in your club. jck
