I read some stats today which said the Swans have conceded more shots inside the penalty area than any other Premier League team. The number quoted was 68. I'm too busy to detail all my thought on this right now but I wonder what you guys think? Is this a defensive problem? Is it down to the midfield? Without giving it too much thought, my initial reaction is that our midfield should be stopping them before they get into our penalty area, aided of course, by the defence. Anyway, I've put it out there and would be interested in your views.
Think back to the Everton game when Britton was out they must have had about 20 attempts from inside our box. In the 7 previous PL games which Britton played all we conceded just 5 goals, the 1 game he was out we could had conceded 5 or more. It's a midfield problem, only Leon can do what he does in our squad and we haven't replaced Joe Allen like for like.
Against Norwich Ki looked lethargic and JDG is never a defensive midfielder, his work rate, positional sense, tackling ability (and bravery) isn't good enough. JDG would be better off played further forward.
In conjunction with the stats from the Norwich game this just backs up how I interpreted what happened on Sat. In the Prem, English style direct teams like Norwich and especially against any hoof and hope teams (let's say Stoke), when they get possession they will put the ball into our penalty area - this has nothing to do with how good or bad our midfield is, when they are bypassed by the opposition there is not much they can do. On Sat, we owned midfield with possession stats 56:44 at the end, but for large spells of both halves closer to 60:40. We outshot them 21:10, with 10:8 edge on target. What we didn't own was our penalty box - this is where Norwich did us harm, they beat us in our own box, and this correlates with the 68 shots inside the penalty area stat from Ivor's post. We must be stronger, more nimble physically and mentally in our own box or we are going to have repeats of the Norwich game. A good part of our problem is from set piece versus open play, although Norwich hit us in both categories. Whittingham's goal was a joke - how a full back slipped inside Ash is comical. On Holt's goal everybody was ball watching on the free kick and not paying attention to the Norwich players drifting across the line before the kick and the queue that was building out wide. Holt was free of everybody - and even he has enough skill to head those crosses in when unchallenged. An interesting stat would be the flip side - how many shots are we getting in the oppositions box. We certainly are not banging them in from distance.
It's harsh to compare Norwich's style with Stoke. They bossed the central midfield against us in the first half on Saturday, they ran and passed straight through the heart of our midfield and played some good football whilst doing it. From our POV it just shows how crucial Britton is to us, no way would they had just cut through our midfield as if it wasn't there in the first half with him on the field, we need another player like him in the squad for when he's not available.
I have to highlight Chico as being one of the main reasons we A) concede so many shots and B) concede so many goals. It is imperative that in a system such as ours, wing-backs-attacking-full-backs, that our centre backs stay back and defend, NOTHING else. Chico's wanderings around the back line and into midfield stretches our defense more than any opposition attack does. Ash is constantly adjusting his position to compensate for Chico's absence and to cover the void he's left. Ash has no help, our full-backs are wingers and Chico thinks he's a midfielder. There is only Ash at the back on far too many occasions. Chico, as a centre back in a team with wing-backs or attacking full-backs, his job is to defend the solidify the back line, prevent penetration, protect the goalkeeper and the goal and not go for a f**K**G stroll into midfield. When in position CHICO is slow to react, unless the ball hit right at him, he is heavy footed and is all too often rooted to the spot on crosses and by nimbler players who dance around him with or without the ball. Goals 1,2, and 3 Saturday, look where Chico isn't....Hmmmm. Sorry to go against the grain guys but someone has to grab hold of Chico soon and tell him hard, that he "....is a f**k**g centre back, a core defender by trade and by nature and that he should NEVER EVER expose his fellow defenders, his goal to attack by wandering off up field, or by crossing into Ash's zone of defense" It schoolboy defending and schoolkids do it better than Chico. How many goals are down to Chico either being way out of position or by being totally limp and ineffective in the air or on the ground. Monk is a far more solid and reliable CB than Chico. For me Chico is becoming a clown I just can't laugh at.
I gues it aint just one thing but lots of small things. I think our adventurous approach is one reason, Rodgers tried to open up our play when he first arrived and realised it was going to be difficult with the defenders we had ,he very quickly changed tack and lucky for us found a happy medium, Sousa was very defensive and also saw how our defence needed to be sheilded by moving our wingers back which in turn gave us nothing in the final 3rd. I think Laudrup knows the problems but is convinced we will score more goals than the opposition,he is getting it right ..just about. What rangel gives us going forward is negated by his lack of pace to retain his defensive position when we lose the ball, it does then tend to pull our defensive shape around a little bit, normally you should have a player who is disiplined to fill in the gaps but i feel Ki and JDG are slow to react to those situations when they occour. Im very happy with how things are shaping overall but there have been problems with our defence for years, we have never had good enough players to cope one on one and although we should never be in that position Laudrups high risk style sometimes means its needed, a classic example was Ash up against Holt and losing his cool instead of backing his defensive qualites and pace,end result a rash challenge and a goal from the free kick(i think ?cant remember) if not a goal a free kick in a dangerous area with a possible yellow/red card depending on what official is on the field= pressure ! I guess there is such a fine balance that its sometimes difficult to see subtle changes but as much as i love our defenders some of them will be getting stiff competition in the coming months IMO. Everything starts from the back, when players are not too confident in their ability they sometimes keep backing off a player until he is in the area,a Norwich full back basically walked it into the net on saturday!! yes the midfield was poor tracking but defenders must also defend! sometimes we look too frightened to make a challenge, i guess thats understandable in this league and we do play against some smoking fast players but for me the defence blows hot and cold and must be a coach's nightmare sometimes! Ive always said with Monk and Tate that unless they play at 100% ability/level they are a liability! i think the same can now be said of Ash and Rangel, any dip below their peak powers and we struggle, its a bit early to judge chico the same way ,he has been a bit stop start injury wise and Ben Davies is basically swiming in the deep end and learning as fast as he can but when Ash and Rangel are on their game they are prem class when they are not its goals to the oppostion! I dont want to be harsh because we have to remember our defenders are basically playing against the best in the world most weekends,trouble is we tend to struggle against non world class like Holt etc. how weird ! Another problem i see is what appears to be a lack of communication at set piece play, this is where Monk does very well(normally) he may get beaten in the air but is normally at least at the source of danger, there are i guess pro's and cons with every player and each player brings good points and bad points.Caulker was a good defender but we still had the same set piece problem! we must sometimes look to the goal keeper to help out but that doesnt seem to happen with our boys. Its very difficult to pin it down to one thing isnt it ? i guess that extra jump in quality will eventually be found and the problem solved, alot of our defence has come through the lower leagues,if these guys were nailed on prem level then they would not have been playing for Swansea city ! i judge prem quality by the amount of time a player brings his 100% game to the field,top players do that every week others dont,i am a realist though and understand where we have came from and where we are at now, some of our boys are still growing at this level and we can as fans be a bit too hard on them sometimes,the flip side of that is that they wear the badge and get the premier league wage so it comes with the territory im afraid!! Its tough at the top and if you aint up to it you will need to be replaced,this is the reality and its a reality Micheal Laudrup seems to be comfortable in, not being best mates with the players will make his job easier,the players were obviously too dull to realise that..i think they know now though! and they also will realise spunking points away to the likes of Norwich wont go down to well either..about time !!
Intresting you say that Stumpy, ive heard Laudrup talk about this in a press conference, he see's it as instead of a back four in a line one player should drop out to close the attacker down or follow the attacker back out of the line..something like that anyway!! we saw it alot when Surez was playing against us and also instead of their attacking mid going one on one with out defensive mid we create a 2 on 1 situation ..something along those lines if i remember correctly ! thats why Chico tends to be the one moving out and Ash sits in the line alot more...apparently ! Its complicated stuff to me anyway...
Firstly Never underestimate the loss of Joe Allen! and secondly the loss of Leon Britton was very evident in the Norwich game. That said both Sousa and Rodgers could see the weaknesses of our back line, Sousa addressed it with a Midfield sitting deep protecting it, and giving us very little bite up front. Rodgers followed in the Sousa footsteps in my view, but not so negatively. you have to go all the way back to the Martinez days to understand the issues. If you can remember, when Roberto started the offencive passing game, the main issue we had was our defencive nightmare at set pieces, something that was never addressed until Sousa took the reigns. now when you look back at Sousa's game, he was far too protective of our backline, hence why we didn't accomplish much up front. Rodgers was a bit more adventurous, though in my view still in the Sousa style, because of the weaknesses of our back line. Now Introduce Laudrup to this back drop, and you have inevitably got issues, his style is a very high tempo, attacking game, particularly on the counter too, so that means our midfield are more offencive also, which exposes our backline far too much, which they clearly struggle to cope with. On top of this we have lost Taylor and thrown in a kid, who is still green behind the ear-holes. I was very positive going into Saturdays game, and thought we could have easily put 3 past Norwich, to win, but when I saw the team sheet, and no Leon Britton, my immediate thought was oh no! NO ONE TO PROTECT OUR SHACKY BACKLINE!!! and so it proved to be. What Laudrup needs to understand is that our defence has always under previous managers had a strong midfield to protect them, and even under Martinez, our midfield defencive work was awesome, with Bodde directing everything, and Leon cleaning up all the opposition loose ball. Laudrup will in my view be looking to get Vorm and Taylor back as soon as possible, that will help enormously with our backline, I also think we need another CB to challenge Chico and Ash. There is also one other issue that has never been addressed since Bodde got injured and that is a commanding midfield general!!! You tell me who in our midfield is pulling the strings, and controlling everything??? No one at all, it's distributed to everyone, and that's another issue, Ki and De Guzman are weak links, their passing needs major improving. Joe Allen to some extent controlled our midfield under Sousa and Rodgers, but he was never given the same licence as Martinez, when he came in to replace Ferrie Bodde, and our midfield has got weaker with every manager since. Yes we have Michu, but if it was not for his goals, we would be in major problems. If I was buying in January, my list would consist of: 1) Striker from Spain 2) Ferrie Bodde type midfield general ( Was hoping Ki was going to be this, but he's far to light in the tackle) 3) CB to challenge Chico & Ash That's me done!.................
The modern game does confuse the hell out me when I try my one-eyed analysis Norway. I do feel though that Chico is often too far away from Ash and he lacks speed and quickness to cover the necessary ground in time. Anywhooo, I did feel he was non existent Saturday, however Tremmell was very poor too and between them we lost at least two goals against us. Not taking anything away from Norwich though, well done to them, they were the better team on the day and i wish them good luck for the rest of the season. Norwich, like Everton are becoming a bogey team, but I do feel our very poor defending/goalkeeping gave points away Saturday. Spurs, with European aspirations, will be a good test for us. Our performance at WHL will tell us where we truly stand so lets forget Saturday and look forward to Saturday.
Firstly Never underestimate the loss of Joe Allen! Where have we missed joe allen??? we are actually better without him so i cant see where we have missed him by.....The truth is we are missing someone like caulker and we all know we are lacking in defense since the season started and i will be very surprised if we dont bring in a couple of defenders next month, also a replacement for Danny is needed should we loose michu for any reason.....Joe allen was bossed by us when we played liverpool and have not missed him one bit....
Trouble with you Dai is you need to go to specsavers, then perhaps you'll see in our game where we have lost his talent!! There was a time when Swansea City controlled the midfield undisputed, but we have become weaker in our midfield dominance of the game, that started with Bodde's injury, and is more acute now with the way we are being stretched with Laudrups attacking style, Laudrup needs to learn some patience, or find the players I listed in my previous post. This one's for Dai!! Which player keeps the ball, and distributes it with great accuracy, Ki or Allen?? go on Dai give it a go.....
When you give the ball back to the opposition the way De Guzman and Ki do, and fail to make any effort to retrieve it back, then your going to put your defence under additional pressure! Britton & Allen are both experts at not only keeping the ball, but their pass completion accuracy is the best in the Premiership, De Guzman and Ki are no where near their stats!............... PS: Though it's fair not to overlook what De Guzman & KI additionally bring to the table, which is their offencive game.....
What i will say about Joe is that if he had stayed then Laudrup probably wouldnt be playing him every week !! in other words it was the right deal for all concerned. I was dead against Joe Allen being sold but on reflection i think he hasnt been missed, lets face facts he played in the team that got its arse kicked against Norwich twice and Everton twice so its not like he made a glaring difference is it ?? Stop smoking the Hash Dragon !!...
Strangely enough the perfect player for rodgers would have been Ki !! perfectly suited to the slower style of keep ball and has a shot on him...oh, and a fraction of the price! says alot about rodgers scouting really
Lots of good points so far from all you posters. But I expected that. It's patently obvious that we missed Leon but, even when he returns, we will still have issues - most of the 68 shots conceded occurred when he was playing because he's hardly missed a game. Not that he is to blame, I hasten to add!! Our present philosophy is based on attack and keeping possession. When we do that we look good. But we do not keep possession as well as we did under Rodgers (not a criticism, just an observation) so the opposition have more opportunity to attack us. When that happens, Ki and JdG get found out because they are far too lightweight when they have to defend. But what about the rest of them? I don't think anyone can complain about Danny's shift although he is not scoring. Dyer tracks back and memorably won the ball for our second goal at Arsenal but he helped concede a goal recently when he faffed about clearing the ball and lost possession. Michu and Rangel both feature prominently in the list of miles covered this season in the PL and then there's Routledge. He does track but ineffectively and frequently fouls in a bad area for us. He needs to work on that. However, it is JdG and Ki, the central midfield engine room, that concerns me the most. When the opposition have the ball they are just ineffective and put us under pressure. Ki has played for Celtic, not necessarily a good thing imo. Celtic are so dominant they are the team usually doing most of the attacking. They rarely have to cope with teams attacking them and I think that Ki lacks experience in dealing with that. A good player going forward but with much to learn about other aspects of the game. JdG also has a lot of talent but lacks the bite we need. If he finds that, he would be of so much more value to us. Anyway, I've just chucked some thoughts off the top of my head and agree that we need a quality striker, a midfield dog who can play and some defensive competition to keep them on their toes. Perhaps we have some solutions already at the club. I'm sure that Kemy can do a job. I liked the look of Tiendalli from the little I've seen of him and, of course, Bartley is back. You never know......
The point is this though Norway! Ivor referenced how teams are getting more shots in and around our box, and that's due to the fact that we don't keep the ball the way we have been used to over the years, if we have the ball, the other team can't score, our possession stats are not as good as last year, and that's down to Laudrups attacking style, but also down to the fact that we now have players in our midfield who cannot keep the ball so well, and who's pass accuracy is not up to the Swansea standard, as found in Leon and Joe!................. PS: I'm not smoking anything, though I've opened a lovely French Rose 'Cuisse de Bergere'..............
I actually thought the partnership of rangel and tiendelli was looking superb and definatly an option as far as im concerned!! its the perfect solution to any tracking back issues,they were very comfortable in each others company at Arsenal the other week. I would have problems in them playing and adding Kemy into the middle when we face our boogie teams away,though i dont think that is Laudrups nature(to be defensive)
