Ah, the religion of peace at work again. The religion that still carries out public stonings. The religion where females have less rights than stray dogs. The religion whose practitioners have no respect for the laws of the countries in which they reside. The religion whose barbaric practices are stuck in the middle ages. The religion that accounts for 99% of the worlds terrorists. If Islam is such a great way of life, why do so many of them want to reside in the non Islamic West? Why don't they just **** off & go live in Jordan, Syria or Lybia?
Why/ they can just go to the UK....and protest at our dead being brought home, and live of the state..(some not all)
Top Dog talking total crap - Commachio's right on the money. These are huge countries and the idea of invading them is barking - look at Afghanistan if you want to see just how hard it can become - and that's a backward country WITHOUT nuclear weapons ! It's great for the armchair warriors to suggest these things when it isn't their lives on the line to carry it out ! Agreed with you Commachio, if they obey the laws and respect the beliefs and liftestyle of others - many do but unfortunately we've allowed whole areas and even whole cities to become immigrant ghettoes, for want of a better word, and the extremists seem to be getting a foothold and growing. I blame the politiicians for not doing more to encourage immigrants to fit in and assimililate into the population; we've made a rod for our own back and it's a ticking time bomb ! The refusal to adapt to western lifestyles and western values is causing more tensions as a minority become ever more militant. Personally I think that if some want to have Sharia laws and islamic values they should go live in a muslim country.
I think I may be getting to old with this new better world. When I was younger human rights meant protection for the good guys. Discipline meant punishment for the naughty through to the bad and was in proportion. Religion was going to church on a Sunday. Many things were wrong in the world and we progressed, made things fairer, outlawed racism, sexism, homophobia. When did we take that step to far, people in trouble spots, news men and woman, aid workers and medics were safe, now they get killed. Why do I read every day about death, soldiers dying to keep us safe, are we safe, do they need to die? Just thought I would give some thoughts, don't know the answers but do know I'm not that keen on our modern world.
I havnt got a degree in history so i may be off here but. Russia/Afghan war, USA.UK and a few other countries equipped the Mujahideen with weapons to fight the afghan gvt and russian forces. they won and forced russia out. 1st Gulf war happened when Iraq invaded Kuwait (2nd if you include the Iran/Iraq war) USA kicked Iraq out of Kuwait. USA had bases in Saudi Arabia and other countries in the region. Mujahadeen had lots of infighting, then the taliban came along and unified all the warring groups. Bin Laden created Al Qaeda (I believe he also fought for the mujahadeen, and got the weapons from the CIA) Al Qaeda and the taliban worked hand in hand. as Bin Laden was pissed off the Americans still had bases in Saudi Arabia etc Al Qaeda done a few attacks including 9/11. America invaded Aghanistan/Iraq. Americans obsession is to get democracy into these countries, and the oil obviously. Now, I do not think its right what they are doing at all, but if you put yourself in their shoes, lets say China had bases, were nicking our oil and wanted communism as our political policies, I am sure most of us wouldnt just sit idly by and let it happen, there would be a resistance movement (we would be terrorists to China though) against it, now whether we would go to china and fly planes into buildings is another question entirely, but we would fight tooth and nail for what we believe in. basically 1 mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. Kidnaps now, You cant pay them as what might be 1 kidnap next year would turn into 1000 if you even paid 1 off and got them back alive, you just have to hope negotiation works. As for how they killed him, it happens a lot, remember that canadian guy on the back of a greyhound bus, he was playing his music with earphones on, guy sitting next to him must have been able to hear it a little, got a 12" hunting knife out, went crasy, stabbed him a few times, then decapitated him. Like i said before anyone takes what i said the wrong way, I dont agree at all with what the al Qaeda do or how they go about doing it, but why they are freedom fighters for the middle east.
I will put this question to you mate... Whilst the extremists are doing what they do, there is an underlying plan... This plan takes year, if not generations, and it's beginning to bloom...and it's a non violence plan. Get into a country, breed rapidly,..Form political parties, gain small holds in minor parts of a land..(sound familiar so far)? Terror and violence reigns in other parts of the world, hence causing an exodus of these countries, with natives looking for a better life.... A relaxed immgration control in a once wealthy country, welcomes all with open arms. They settle and live happily, (and cause no problems)........ Eventually after a period of time, due to the population of the area, they take control, through their MP's etc. Eventually this spreads throughout the country like a virus, and they rule the state, in a non violent way... Sound true?
steve - I don't have a History Degree either but have a massive interest in it. Don't think there's much wrong in your brief resume of the history of Afghanistand etc, and tend to agree we shouldn't try to force democracy on other peoples - especially where they have little or no concept of democracy. Personally don't think Afghanistan has been worth the blood and effort and we could have taken Al Qaeda on in other ways. What i can't agree on though is the one man's terrorist / another man's freedom fighter argument - it's not about fighting it's about how you go about it and who you fight that makes the difference. Blowing up innocent civilians with a suicide bomber is Terrorism - not freedom fighting. You want to take on the government - fight the state insitutions as they have in the "middle east spring" we saw last year, and to a degree this. Killing people in markets with car bomb or suicide act is not the same. Just my honest opinion - others are welcome to disagree !
Yes I can see your logic and don't disagree at all. My thoughts are that we should have controlled Asian immigration from the outset - these aren't largely christians or Rastafarians from the West Indies, these are people from a massively different culture and who often hold values massively opposite to our own liberal western ones. But having allowed them in we compounded the mistake of allowing ghettoe like areas and operating almost a seperate society. BIG mistake !
But Steve you mentioned one country..........China Whilst they keep out of things and quietly look for world domination in a peaceful manner, no one will bother them, they are to big and powerful.Thus siding themselves with India, there will be new super powers in the world in the not to far future.
I dont disagree, but in World War 2 The germans carper Bombed London and a few other cities, We in turn carpet bombed Berlin and a few other cities, each killed loads of civilians (and you cant really say it was collatoral damage either). And whats happening in Sudan, the people of 1 city/area have rose up, and the Government have taken it upon themselves to virtually wipe them out. The French resistence in the war, I have no facts, but i bet they killed Civillians as well as German personel. Civilians are soft targets, and it makes more of a statemement, Bomb a USA base doesnt really do anything, Fly a plane into the WTC has everyone taking notice of your cause, its a shock tactic, like i said dont agree with it, but its what they do, IRA done it, Al Qaeda done it, probably more in the past and a lot more in the future. as for syds the world was great now its ****, what a load of crap. go back through history and you will find a lot of **** going down, Aeroplanes getting hijacked and blown up, olympic athletes getting shot and blown up, party political hotels getting bombed etc etc etc. @ com they already are a superpower, i just said them as they are a hell of a lot bigger than us and we wouldnt stand a chance, like USA against Iraq/afghanistan, unless everyone took up arms and kicked their arse.
Fair one, Now you telling me the good old days were not love peace and harmony, as we are led to believe? Your facts kind of lead me to believe otherwise.
It is absolutely dreadful what has happened to this man, but to blame it on Pakistan and its people in general is, in my opinion just wrong. Pakistan have lost thousands of soldiers and civilians in the fight against the terrorists, and this should not be forgotten.
Difference is, in the past, you lived in your own little bubble, in your own little town, in your own little country, and you didnt give a toss, or just didnt hear most of the time about the rest of the world. Now what happens is everywhere (even football forums lol) so you cant really escape it, so it seems lie its all doom and gloom, its not, the same **** happened, probably even worse than now with Pol Pot, Israel, Middle east etc etc etc. Its also come closer to home, years ago it was the middle east, now its the London underground or the WTC and its big news.
I quite like the way Israel stands up for itself & just sticks two fingers up to any **** that doesn't like it. We should take a leaf out of their book. Also, we should adopt a similar immigration/asylum policy similar to that of Canada & Australia. .
Now Steve we are touching into my area, what i believe in. The main issue is media and how everything is portrayed. We only hear what they want us to hear hear and believe......like sheep. You mentioned Pol Pot, and yet the rest of the world sat there and did nothing whilst he murdered over 1million of a population. Then we could also talk about the forgotten war. When the Americans were having their tiff with the Vietnamese, people forget about the carpet bombings of Laos, which was the most heavily bombed country in the history of modern times, a country which still hasn't recovered fully, and made the Vietnam war seem insignificant.
Steve - you do have a point re; the bombing by all sides in the second World War - but the difference then is a legal declaration of war and general state of war, or even Total War if you like when the entire country and economy is on a war footing. Blowing up civilians in a market with a car bomb or suicide bomb when there's a semblance of "normality" is not quite the same. Semantics maybe but there is a difference.
Youd be surprised just how much of the current extremism has been born out of the chaotic aftermath of colonialism in the region. Just sayin. Of course it doesnt excuse this event and the question must be posed, if the government of the country is so tied up with these people why do they still recieve billions in aid? As I have stated in many a debate about the region (usually Iran) my point is why is all the focus elsewhere (mostly Iran) and the "perils" posed by there when Pakistan is clearly the greatest threat to world safety as a nuclear armes entity which has active and almost government approved extremist infiltration in its military.
Agreed Billy - especially on the immigration policy. I do though think that Israel is a fairly unique situation where the country was brought into existence by international consent (though far from unanimous) and which was promptly invaded and has remained at loggerheads with it's neighbours ever since. They do make mistakes though and at times can be their own worst enemy IMHO, however there is much to be admired - especially being the only true democracy in the middle east !
I said i didnt disagree with you, and i even said why they done it. Al Qaeda blow a hole in the U.S.S Cole killing 1 sailor. it gets reported and sorry to say this for the sailor, but who gave a ****, really. Al Qaeda Fly 2 planes into the WTC, 1 into the pentagon, and 1 goes down into a field, killing 3,000 people, Its huge news, everyone sits up and goes wow, ffs, cry like a baby, but everyone remembers it, everyone hears you done it, the media then report on you, everyone know Bin laden and Al Qaeda , a lot are **** scared, dont know whats happening next, its the financial and military they hit, hoping to bring down the economy and government. Yes car bombs in iraqi markets are the same, they strike when no one expects it, they want to cause as much disruption and get as much publicity as they can get, and scare the pants of people so they cant carry on their everyday lives, the normal people rise up against the government, and the Al Queda gets who they want in again. Its mad, its cowardly, its just plain wrong, but there is method in their madness (it wont work though, it never has)
Seriously like , the artificial creation of that state is one of the major causes of the hostility the arabs of the region harbour, and you can hardly blame them
