I said I would give AVB 15 games before I make my judgement, I've given him 16. So, here goes...I find AVB really hard to summarise and analyse, does anyone else feel like that? I've decided he is a strange manager, and truth be told, probably a strange guy. I can't help but feel we are floating around 4th place, not through our own good work, but through other teams awful form. If Arsenal were anywhere near where they should be, or Newcastle continued the form of last season, I couldn't see us in with a shout. Whenever I tried to look at positives for AVB, because there are times when I want to be positive, I struggle to find the words. Even after our 3 game winning streak, I still never felt able to find compliments about his management style. Now this all sounds very doom and gloom, so I want to stress, I have seen some light in the tunnel with AVB. The positives I think the squad we have has the potential to be very strong, with one or two more additions to top things up, I could genuinely see us making challenges in the right places. I completely agree with AVB's starting 11, and what he sees as his 'strongest' team. I also think in the long run he wants to add a creative midfielder and push Dembele forward, which I also agree with. Our first half performance against Manchester United is one of the best I have ever seen at Spurs, we took the game to them and were fearless, yet devastating in our assault. Which tells me we have that in our locker, the key is making it show more often. I think AVB is intelligent in the transfer market, this is potentially still unproven, but I get the sense, based on the players we are linked with that he has the right idea of where we need to be. Finally, I love his passion and desire to win every competition we enter. You can see with AVB that he genuinely cares (probably where the fall out with Redknapp arose). I honestly believe we would win a trophy under AVB, this season or next (if he survives). The problems AVB is incredibly tactically naive, and for a manager that is supposed to be a great tactician, I find this troubling. I cannot for the life of me understand the persistence with Huddlestone, every time he brings him on when we are winning, disaster sets in. Huddlestone is slow, lack luster and frankly not good enough IMO to be playing at that end of the table. AVB's failure to recognise that is costing him points. The Chelsea game is a good example of that, we were up against a speedy, mobile team in great form, and we were overrun in the middle of the park. Losing points late on - this is down to the lack of confidence and bravery with his selections. AVB needs to learn that if you want to survive at the top, you need to play like one of the 'big boys'. That means being arrogant enough to believe the team that are ahead in games will see it out. The tendency to switch to the defensive, 'save what we' have attitude is costing us big time. There is plenty of leadership and experience in that team, and I think AVB struggles to trust his players. AVB can't seem to get the team playing "the Tottenham way" (and I say it like that because I'm always cautious when stereotyping a team on their past traditions). Whether this is down to a lack of man management skills, or confusing training drills (probably a combination of the two), the players don't look comfortable with each other. Finally on his lack of man management skills, I think AVB over compensates on this by speaking ridiculously positively in the media about his players. Every quote I read, usually contains some form of 'enormous effort, amazing attitude' which annoys me intensely. His appearance on the pitch after we lost 5-2 to Arsenal, congratulating every player as if we had one the game was over the top. Again I think this kind of 'public' image he is trying to create confuses the players. My biggest worry of all with AVB is, whilst he might recognise some of these faults, he is too set in his ways to change anything. Ultimately this will be at the cost of Tottenham, and unfortunately I think we will need to take steps backwards, before we can move forward. Of course I would love to be proven wrong. Stats I just wanted to end on a couple of interesting stats: 1. We are -11 points in comparison to this time last year 2. If football matches finished after 80mins, Tottenham would be top of the league. If that isn't a telling stat for AVB and his tactical decisions in matches, I don't know what is. Would be interesting to hear any other Spurs fans, or neutrals, opinions on AVB? I'm certain some readers will disagree with my thoughts.
I've never been much of a fan of the guy and while at times he has impressed me, it's not been enough for me to see why Levy thought he was the man to take us forward/ a step up on Harry. There was a poll the other day to express our opinions of AVB (think Spurf made the thread) and I said that he's "doing alright and needs more time". The thing is, thinking about it truly, I'm not looking for "alright", I'm looking for him to impress and be in a position where I think "oh **** me, Levy's pulled off a master stroke here" but unfortunately it's just not the case. Many have cited the fact that we've had an injured squad and lost key players as to why AVB has not truly impressed and don't get me wrong, I'm not expecting him to win the league with what we've got but surely this is the time when he needs to do the business and show why he's a good manager? We're not far off a full squad now and while results have picked up (Everton aside), most of the performances have still been slack and we've been quite fortunate in games in my opinion. I'm happy to give him more time don't get me wrong but I just personally think we could've been so far better off had we either stuck with Harry or brought someone like Moyes in, who I rate far higher than both.
A lot of what you posted there has already been stated in other posts FK so it's difficult to elaborate on anything you've posted here. All I can say is why are you talking about ifs? If Arsenal play as they should and if Newcastle were on last year's form. They're not and in the case of Newcastle it might have been just a one off season. You can't talk about ifs because the subject of the if doesn't exist. Arsenal and Newcastle are on the form that they're on,end of. Maybe we'll improve.
Firstly, welcome and good article That's why it's worth not worrying too much about whether he's doing a good job or not and at this early stage it changes from week to week. The important thing is that we've not been totally crap to the point where we already need to be thinking about his sacking. I think your article speculates too much, then again you kind of have to if you're going to form concrete opinions on the guy, but the speculation seems to follow some of the same things the media and all negative Spurs fans are saying. Does he really have such poor man management skills? We simply don't know but for every reason I've heard to suspect he does, there's an inteview of a Spurs player saying how much they enjoy working with him or there's Defoe, or Sandro, or Lennon who have all improved a lot since he's joined. Is he as good as he's supposed to be tactically? It's hard to tell because he's had to water down the style of play he wants as he hasn't had the kind of players he wants for his style of play available. All I'll say is I don't think his tactical expertise is particularly broad ranging but neither is Wenger's, he had a style of play that he wanted his side to play and it led them to success and even in recent years without the trophies they've still been mostly up there. AVB's tactical philosophies aren't that far from Wenger's or from Guardiola's so whilst it's a risk for Levy to put his faith in him, it's quite an exciting one even if it's not the "Spurs Way". On the subject of the "Spurs Way", I think most who coin the term would say 'Arry had the "Spurs Way" down pretty well, lots of fast attacks and risk taking. Ultimately that led to us blowing a big lead in 3rd place last season so I'm unsure just how important it is to play that way. My view is that currently the league position is about where we'd expect to be and the football standard isn't what we expect, infact a lot of it's been poor. You might think we're only where we are because of poor form from Arsenal and Newcastle but the fact is that 68-72 points will usually get you 4th and will definitely have you there abouts and I make us to be about 2/3 points off that kind of rate, that's basically one result off which is neither reason to panic or celebrate. We've definitely passed the first checkpoint, if you like, of his career at Spurs but rather than going into too much depth as to whether he's the right man I think it's more appropriate to set benchmarks for where we expect him to improve the team. For example between now and the end of the season I'll expect him to improve our points ratio slightly, show he can identify where the problem with conceding goals in quick succession lies and rectify it and finally improve the style of our play so the quality of football we're playing is improved making it more enjoyable for us punters. How disappointed I'd be if he didn't achieve those things would depend on the extent to which he failed, whether we get any new players in January and whether our best players stay fit. As a bloke, however, I like him he doesn't take **** from interviewers and celebrates every goal like it's a World Cup final. I really hope he does succeed and until he's shown me that he's not up to task I'm fully backing the AVB era
Welcome to the board and a well written post. May I make a suggestion, you have enough stuff in your piece for at least 6 threads making it a little difficult to decide what to debate. It's a shame to waste all your ammo in one go.
Its a good thread FK with some interesting points. Please do post more regularly, as the board needs people with opinions like this Like TMT has said, a lot of the issues/concerns etc have been posted elsewhere recently, but I will reiterate my thoughts. you mention in your "positives" section about AVB needing 1 or 2 additions to have us challenging in the right places. - I agree with you, I don't think we need too much, especially when we've got a fully fit squad to pick from. a creative midfielder, a striker and a left back are the areas I feel we need to strengthen and/or have cover for. in your "problems" section, you mention about him being tactical naive and persisting with huddlestone. - i think this goes hand in hand with your point in the "positives" section. If AVB had got his targets in order to play the way he wants to play, I don't think we'd be seeing this problem. We're having to use players like huddlestone because we don't have the options, and in addition, have had a lot of injuries. What I am seeing at various times, are signs of the "tottenham way" beginning to show, but not consistently. Again this is due to the same problems. Once he has the players he wants and better depth for when we have got inevitable injuries, I think his preferred formation is going to compliment "the tottenham way" very nicely. I'd even go as far as to say that we'll see some of the best football we've seen in years. But he needs time and the tools to be able to do so. - Notice how Livermore hasn't played in ages, yet he was tried and tested quite a bit at the start of the year. AVB knows he's not going to work long term, and this is a prime example of someone who's not suited and is preventing us from playing the tottenham way in AVB'S preferred formation. He'll be gone in January, IMO. I actually think what he says to the media is very good. He's keeping the players onside by praising them to the media, which is exactly what he needs to be doing, as well as giving youngsters a chance, which he's also doing. I also think that he's not as stubborn as everyone makes out. After toying with his preferred formation, he's clearly realised that he's not got the right players in certain areas for it to be our primary formation. Once he realised this, he switched to a 442 and we improved. I think he's itching to switch back, but knows that whilst he's got the likes of Huddlestone, Livermore and even Dempsey as 3 options who may well have to take 1 of more of the 3 central midfield spots, he's not got the confidence in their ability to deliver. IMO, none of those named have the ability or intelligence to play their required role. (not to the standard AVB wants, or has had before, anyway) The 11 point stat is a harsh one to compare to. We were on a very exceptional run which was unlike us, and Harry'd been in charge for 3 years and was settled. AVB's had a few months and we still sit in 5th, which I actually think is very good considering all the changes. In reply to your comments about Arsenal and Newcastle and them not being like they were last season, I think the likes of West Brom and Swansea are just the teams that have replaced them in terms of positions in the league. So for me, there's no difference. - Arsenal are only a couple of points behind anyway and they had a horrific start to the season last year, so it's indifferent for me. They'll still be right up there at the end of the season, IMO.
Probably to do with the volume of changes to our first XI. Last season was this: Friedel; Walker, Kaboul, King, Assou-Ekotto; Lennon, Parker, Modric, Bale; van der Vaart; Adebayor. This season has been this: Lloris; Walker, Gallas, Caulker, Vertonghen; Lennon, Sandro, Dembele/Huddlestone, Bale; Dempsey; Defoe. 8 differences.
Whatever anybody thinks of AVB he's a character and a high profile one at that who needs a high profile club. Wherever he goes he'll make news. He took over at Chelsea which is a hugely difficult task and now Spurs which is an equally difficult task and for that he has my respect. If he becomes successful with trophies and top 4 etc etc I can see a Brian Clough type of character emerging. One who'll relax and get better because at the moment he's under pressure and tense. He genuinely cares for the teams he manages and gives his all so I wish him luck. I'd like us Spurs supporters not to be like those miserable old scrotes at Chelsea and get behind him.
If you have any evidence that going on the pitch after the Arsenal defeat "confuses the players" then please present it. That could just as easily be seen (IMHO moreso) as *good* man management, particularly as we won the next few games! The -11 points is meaningless given the completely different situation and personnel. You've made some good points but failed to include any analysis of why the difference, which when you think about it (well when I think about it anyway) means that the difference is not surprising, and indeed could have been worse. Also it's a very 'hall glass empty' approach in saying that we're only as high as we are because other teams are worse - that is actually the case every season! League position is a combination of how well (or badly) your team performs compared to how well (or badly) other teams perform. If other teams can do better then so can we. It's all a bit negative!
Indeed - you read my mind! The worst typo you can make is one that accidentally spells a different word - oh for a context checker!
Alright FK? welcome to the forum. You will see there has been many a debate on Andy (aka AVB) yet debates on managers will run and run as its such an important role at the club. Your article picks out certain parts i agree with so you must be a good man! For me, any team we watch is a representation of the managers personality, style ( or lack.of it) its down to the manager to capture the fans imagination and play football which the fans want to see, as after all football is meant to be entertainment. If we just want results and trophies, lets be honest here..we wouldn't pick tottenham as our team would we? yes were a big club with a great tradition and had many a success on the pitch but style, excitement and great foorball is what fans of this club want to see. Yes the winning mentality added in for good measure will be nice but essentialy i want to see the team built around the traditions of the club. Andy ( aka AVB) is someone i just can't relate to, he is dour and isn't a manager i wanted at the club. I want to see us play with freedom, creativity, and play football to excite the fans and if Andy is such a good tactican (as we was promised) compared to old arry boy, then he can build a team which plays exciting football and gets results. Yes that will take time (if he is capable) and yes it depends on what players we have in the squad so i can understand why many fans are prepared to show patience yet i wont pretend to like the guy or his methods. Arry took us on a run playing exciting football, players playing with freedom and while in the end circumstances meant he was sacked, he is still our most successful premier league manager and done it will sfyle. So to see us go from playing style with players such as vdv, bale & modric to now having a more dour approach means it will take a while before i am behind him as a manager.
Is the Glass half empty or half fall ?,. My answer is:- 'it is not yet broken.' The next 4 premiership games (leading up to the transfer window) will give us a clearer perspective on AVB. So far this term, AVB's performance with his inheritance, has been sketchy. So much so that some people have already sharpened their knifes whilst others are busy preparing the noose. I think the manner in which the results have fallen this term, tells a story of an inexperience manager.,but there's only two or three EPL managers that would not have struggled under the prevailing circumstance at Spurs anyway. I know its another IF,. but IF he (AVB) fails to gather at least 8 points from our remaining fixtures this year (till January), it would suggest to me that our Glass is not just half-bloody-empty, but sodding-well-leaking to boot. Levy might have to do some serious 'face saving' repairs (in January) if Spurs do not show improved form now. Our current squad, (when fit) is worthy of a top 5 finish. AVB under-achieves if a mid-table finish is the best he come do, come May. My position is clear., I don't think we've seen enough of AVB to cast judgement. He is one of the premierships most inexperience managers,. probably never heard of the likes of Wigan,, Norwich or even Everton before last year. Did he even get a chance to feild a side against Wigan, Norwich or Everton, home and away, whilst at chelsea ?. Despite this, he strikes me as being very studious and diligent and capable of success here at Spurs. More experience of the EPL will invertably bring success for AVB., but in the meantime do we have the fortitude to wait or maybe (lacta Alea est).....the die is cast.
How can a manager be responsible for individual errors ? Which most of the late goals can come from. His selection in terms of defence has been good considering the injuries.
Some very good replies to a wide ranging OP it would be good to get a response from FK on his thread.
I have stayed away from this thread as it seemed to me to be just another " what do you think of AVB" thread. However, I have to take issue with this. It seems to me that whilst some of the late goals we have conceded may have been down to individual errors, those errors took place after being placed under concerted pressure. Pressure that, IMO, AVB invited on us by his naive use of substitutes. For that, he can be held responsible.
If footballl matches finished after 80 minutes we would be top???? Well, by my calcs we would only have another 6 points. However, Man U would have a bucket-full less, not so sure about Man City or the Chavs, does anyone have any time to check that stat?
Its hard to reply to this without examples but I would say its the players on the pitch that put pressure on themselves. They are good enough to pass around in triangles for 5 minutes rather than hoof the ball away.
For us it's Newcastle 1point, WBA 2pts, Norwich 2, City 1 and Everton 3 so that's a total of 9. So we'd be on 35 points and obviously United have got a lot of extra points and I think City might be fairly similar. It's kind of interesting but I don't want our fans to be seen as clinging to it as a sign we can win the league
