Good day campers, before Sunday we had loads of Bibâs and Bobâs with lots to say, now itâs quiet, boring this success malarkey. Anyway, a question for everyone,realistickly how far can a club like Sunderland realistickly go over say the next 5 years? Yes I know we all want Europe and champions league, with drink a top 4 finish and with drugs thrown in the title, but I think we also know that those dreams, well top 4 and titles, are for another life time. We start with the major disadvantage, shared by many others, that we donât have the mega bucks that other teams do, even American billinonairs fall short these days, see what I did there. We then add in geography and the fact that the Northeast would appear to be a baron land full of coal mines, unemployed, whippets, allotments and a complete lack of shops and nightlife, I think thatâs what Abbey meant. Will that perception ever change, even inside toilets and electricity has not convinced them. We then add in the two vital ingredients, a world class manager who would come and top players who would follow him, even the BoBâs talked of MON and Hughes, good they may be but world class! Now then, if, like me, you think that a top 4 is a lifetime away and even a top 6 is pushing it, what is our motivation when we have achieved being a regular top half premier team and we know that next season, and the one after its no longer about progression, its all about maintaining. For me knowing I will see some good football, hoping we can beat the top teams and getting to watch the top players, even if they are on the other side, will do. Add in a real attempt at a cup run and that will do, how about you?
Europe would be nice in a couple (2 or 3) of seasons time, however consistently being in the top 10, playing decent football and giving the top teams a run for their money (maybe beating them at home) would do me for a while. Sounds boring, in a nice way compared to what we are used to....
Top six should be achievable over the next few seasons. Top four? Not a chance in hell unless Ellis starts pouring money in like they have at Man City. Sad really.
You mean we should be aiming to be consistently top 6, or fighting for top 6 and maybe achieving it once in a while?
Aiming for and fighting for are the same thing to me. We should be aiming/fighting for consistently top six along with about twelve other teams in the league. Easy to say, very hard to achieve.
lol, dont think my question was clear... You would be happy if we were not in the top 6 season after season, as long as we were fighting to be there? or do you expect us to consistently be in the top 6, i.e. finish in the top 6 in the majority of seasons?
I personally think its about developing our young players into a great team who can play well together, just like Man U did in the 90's. When you look at them they have bought some big names but to be honest they have done it more recently. There very best players were developed, even Ronaldo was not a massive massive signing and was developed into the the player he is now. We should be looking to develop our players and buy potential as well as some proven experience to help bring the young lads through. Its all very well having a team of stars on big money but its very easy for them to become unhappy. If we stick to developing our team we can be a regular top 6 side and maybe even sneak into a champions league spot in the future. Lets face it Spurs are going to lose Arry to the England job, Aresnal have all sorts of problems and Liverpool are not looking like the world beaters everyone thought they were. Chelsea have an ageing squad too. Things change and we just have to be in the best shape possible when they do so we can take advantage of the situation. Top 8 this year top 6 next would be my aim.
TBH mate I think your asking the wrong bloke. You see two of my favorite games were Charlton at Wembley and a 1-4 defeat to Aston Villa at Roker Park. My favorite player was Bally, not for his skill but the way he played. For me it's not always about winning but the way you try to win. If that makes sense. Anyway to answer your question, I'd be happy if we were not top 6 season after season as long as we were giving our all to achieve top six year after year.
I think we can attract top class managers if Short shows money.. I remember when we were looking for a manager before Bruce, and Roberto Mancini actually came out and said he was interested in becoming Sunderland manager. Now he would be on a lot more money than Bruce, but I think Short needs to realise to get somewhere you have to break the wage budget (N'Zogbia).. Until we break our wage budget and flair players, Europe sadly is out of our grasp...there are much better teams out there now.. Your have the top 4.. then Spurs, Liverpool, Everton, Villa
I don't think its realistic to challenge Man Utd, Man City Chelsea. Maybe the next three of Arsenal, Liverpool and Spurs may be just out of our reach but if one or two have bad seasons the top 4-5 is not impossible to break into. Liverpool slipped in recent seasons, spurs have stalled and Arsenal are a mess. Its there for the taking for a club willing to push the boat a little. Everton have done well without two pennies to rub together so it can be done without blowing 100's of millions. Where we are at now I EXPECT us to be challenging for 7th, theres no reason why tge likes of Villa, Fulham, Stoke, Newcastle, Everton should be above ahead of us. Throw in that Fulham, Brum and Stoke are getting a taste of Europen football, I expect us to take the cups seriously (Bruce biggest failing down at Brighton) Its a handful of games that could take us to where we would all love to be. Whilst I was so angry at the Brighton debacle and the manner of defeat to Chelsea and Newcastle that I may have slipped into the BOB zone, I'm willing to hop back on the fence for a couple of weeks after the Stoke result and performance, I've always maintained I'm on a sliding scale with Bruce depending on results, I don't loathe the man like some. I wil maintain that with Bruce at the helm I think we are limited to how far we can go and I think that's mid table and inept in cups. Whereas I think a Martin O'Neil could take us fighting for the top 6 and looking to WIN a cup (3 l.cup finals with Leicester, 2 wins) (1 l.cup final with Villa, unfortunate losers)
I reckon the FFP rules could cause a ripple or 2 that might make it possible for one of the other teams to slyly make a run at the top 4/5 places. I dont expect the ripples to have an effect for a few more seasons, but the time of big spending teams in the premier league is coming to an end (unless loopholes are found). I reckon our current policy of sell before buy will be positive in the long run, as there is no point in getting in a European place if we are banned from competing in it... If we do get into Europe, our revenue will increase and so we should be able to afford more... plus getting into Europe and doing well in it will increase international recognition and increase commercial revenue as well.
I'm with Vegas on this issue. However, I'd also add that we need to have a settled management team for a number of years to maintain a sensible growth and not change direction every two or three years as has happened so often in the past. I also believe that we, the supporters, should support both the team and the management. I'm not suggesting absolute blind support where we don't show our dislike of playing method, team spirit the willingness to fight for the club and a few other things, of course our voice has to be heard. What annoys me is the bile that has been directed at several of our managers and some players in recent years. Does it serve any purpose and achieve a better standard of play and results? Football is a team game and sometimes one or two of the team have an off day and the team as a whole suffer, not to mention the fans. However, I ask you all to consider how well you would perform in your chosen occupation if, on an off day, 20,000 people are screaming all manner of abuse at you.
Gotta laugh sorry... We are light years of being a top 6 club... Unless there is a major overhaul in the clubs policies on wages etc..we will still be having this conversation every year. Reality is, as we stand now we are a mid to upper mid table team at best.
I think we all agree on that and TBH dont see anyone saying we are more than that. Point of the post is that right now everyone talks of the next level, my question is are we all happy when we reach our glass ceiling
Talk of the next next level is what? Top 4...never Top 6 highly unlikely Top ten, well within our reach, so we are gonna be in the same group as Villa, Everton, Skunks etc, our glass ceiling, and i'm fine with that. We should have been a bit more ambitious in the cups, we we know how that panned out.
Villa???? Seriously??? Villa finished 1 place above us last season and have sold their 2 most creative players - they have Bent but they don't really have much else. I'd put us above them and probably almost on a par with Everton. As for paying silly money wages - the club cannot do this due to the financial fair play rules coming into play - without CL money you can't pay CL wages basically. We don't have the income to sustain it
The average over the last 10 years to get 6th place is 60 points over the season The average to get 4th place is 68 points over the season The average to get 2nd place is 81 points to get 1st its 88 points. So can we get 60 points, yes, sounds easier than it probably is, but its not impossible. can we get 68 points, yes, again sounds easier than it is, but agin i think its definately possible. can we get 81-88 points, highly unlikely, but the gap in points is staggering from 4th to 2nd, and not as many as i thought from 6th to 4th.
Sorry, but I dont see why we cant be fighting for a top 6 place, especially in 2 or 3 seasons time. Everton (and Villa perhaps) are going to struggle imo in the coming seasons - no money and selling their best players. So top 5 will be Man U, Man C, Chelsea, Arsenal/spurs, Liverpool. the 6th spot will be contested between Spurs/Arsenal, Fulham, us, newcastle (if they get their ownership "issue" sorted) and Villa (who I cant write off completely yet - depends on how they invest). Bolton and Stoke will be close behind that group. Top 6 spot will be tightly contested, but any team who get it will suffer in the following season due to increase in games played and another team might grab it. If our young players continue to come through (Noble, Laing, Tounkara, Cook etc etc) then a) improve our squad with them or b) sell them, so we can buy other players
Now then vegas, taking you off topic now but to a place you may enjoy. I meet up with redfender (Les) at home games, met throgh not606. Ask in what he does, retired now but still does it, and who he does it for. Ask him about his mate and his trips to the arena at Newcastle, you may find common ground.
