I was just thinking: If we went on to win the CL on Saturday thus adding that to the already won FA cup would, we still be tagged 6th best team in England? I mean as we stand now with just the FA cup in the trophy cabinet we have had a better season than all above us excluding City.
No. We have a better squad then United, Arsenal, Spurs and Newcastle in my opinion, we just haven't performed well due to bad man management and player tantrums for 2/3's of the season. We have deservedly put ourselves through to the Champions League final and also won the FA Cup despite coming 6th in the league, that deserves major credit, more so than City.
If and big if we win on Saturday we would have had the best season of any team in England - 2 big trophies and C.L football next year is better than City even. If we lose however it will be open to debate as to what is better, C.L place or FA cup. Personally I come from the school of though that winning a trophy is a big deal and what the record book show but others have different views. As for our squad, I'm not so sure our squad is that good anymore. We have good cover in some areas but we look weak in others. We badly need to address the wide men situation (Marin and De Bruyne obviously helps) and maybe up top too assuming Drogba goes. We have some great youth players but will they get a chance?
I don't quite agree with you, to be honest. You can't blame your league position on the form under AVB because you actually got slightly more points per game in the league before he was sacked. If you win the CL, I'd agree that you deserve a lot of credit and would've done better than City however. Also, of course you have a stronger squad than us, Newcastle and Arsenal as you pay way more for it. I'd disagree with you on United though, they had pretty much the same squad last season and won the League as well as getting to the CL Final and this season still deserve credit for finishing with 89 points this season. To be so close to the title without two first choice players in Vidic and Fletcher for pretty much the whole season shows their strength in depth.
I know what you mean but it was a lot tougher for Robbie to come in and do well on all fronts, we had a lot of pressure on us to finish top four when AVB left nevermind overcome a defecit against Napoli. I don't agree with the bollocks about average points, I think it's irrelevant tbh, you can't compare someone in charge for 3 months to someone in charge for 9. AVB totally isolated the changing room and would never have achieved what has been achieved had he stayed on until the end. I'm not blaming just AVB, I did say it was partly down to player tantrums aswell.
I wasn't comparing the managers, I'm just saying that a more united team didn't improve your performances in the league so I don't think you can blame the league finish on the first two thirds of the season.
Why does winning the FA cup despite coming 6th deserve major credit? Winning the FA cup while placing low in the league isn't something to give you kudos for... Also, you will get credit if, and only if, you win the CL. If you don't I don't see why you would get more 'credit' than City, you both have spent ludicrous amounts of money so that doesn't even factor in...
No. I'd have us, Arsenal and Spurs all around joint 3rd with u maybe slightly ahead. Head to head I do not believe Arsenal would have beaten us this season with RDM in charge and we played Spurs away during a bad spell (injury wise), we'd have walked that game without serious injuries. I think our squad is way behind City and a fair bit behind United but I'd probably say it's just about better than Arsenal's. Ramires, JT, Cahill, Cole, Ivanovic and Mata would walk into Arsenal and Spurs XI's IMO, but equally Bale, Modric and Walker would walk into ours. Only Song, OXO and RVP would get into our team IMO
I disagree with Drogs in that it deserves more credit than City, for me if you win a league of 38 games that is the ultimate prize which should never be overshadowed. What you have to understand is our squad isn't as strong as in the past, in the past we could easily fight on 4 fronts and not be affected. We've been in the CL far longer than the other 3 English teams and it has taken its toll, playing in the CL has probably cost us around 6-8 points this season. I'm convinced with a full strength squad and no FA Cup or CL distractions we'd have beaten Arsenal at the Library, Spuds at home and probably got a point at City
Well I'm gonna Tbh I worded that wrongly, I meant that if we won the Champions League as well as the FA Cup it would deserve more credit than what City have done, or at least as much credit. I've always said the Premier League is truly the holy grail and the competition we should prioritise on winning, however the circumstances this season have been different due to us having a fully packed fixture list for the most important time of the season whereas nobody else did, I believe we played the most amount of games in England. I think because of how poorly we were performing early on, it's a greater achievement winning the trophies we have been able to than City doing what we all expected them to do
Interesting analysis DL. I still think Chelsea have a better squad than Arsenal or Spurs, but the best XI from each is about equal. I think from Arsenal only RVP would really improve Spurs' best team and only Bale would really improve Arsenal's. I'm not sure Cahill and Ivanovic would really improve Spurs much: good players but so are Kaboul and Walker and JT isn't better than a fit Ledley King (a rare sighting admittedly). Is Mata really much better than Van der Vaart? I'd still have Drogba though and Torres is better than Adebayor.
How would JT, Cahill, Cole and Ivanovic all walk into our team yet Walker would get into yours? I'd say Parker would walk into your first 11 more easily than any other player in our team because Mikel's so limited. Not sure why you'd take Chamberlain, unless you're going on potential and not whether they'd get in the team now. We're all strong in first choice right backs but Sagna would be my pick of all 3, although obviously I wouldn't swap Walker for him. It's one of those never ending discussions but I think we have just about the best first 11 but our squad players don't really fit our best system which causes us problems when we're missing even one player. You have the best squad and Arsenal are somewhere in the middle with some areas of their squad both being the strongest out of the teams in first choice but lacking in backup for them.
It's an impossible situation to unravel. Theoretically, when everyone has played each other twice, the best team will have the most points. Injuries , suspensions, bad luck, good luck, have time to even out. Rewards for top 4 are enormous. Add the Carling Cup and FA Cup, and the first conundrum pops up. Go flat out for both and probably effect PL position, or mix up some "fringe" players and see how it goes ?? This to me seems a sensible approach. Now add the CL and things get way more complicated, but only for those teams in it. This is way too big to go in half arsed. It's flat out from the off, putting even more strain on proceedings. Those teams not in it are in the EUFA, but without the pressure of CL. Few can remember or even care who won the Eufa Cup 2 years ago. The result is that only clubs with enough quality players to field 2 teams of virtually equal ability can win everything. Every sub needs to be as good as the player he is subbing. This year , this counts us out, along with every other team in the PL. It also counts out Real and Barca, Bayern and every other Team in Europe. None of them will win all 3 or 4 Comps. In our case, we also missed out on top 4, while Real, Barca and Bayern will be back next year. So, in my opinion, with what we have available, we got our priorities mixed this year. This was clouded by the ridiculous goings on and lack of player effort. What all this bollocks hid was the TRUE state of our strengths and weaknesses. Now they are exposed for all to see. With our top 11 and our top 3 subs, we are a match for any team in Europe. Without them we can't beat our PL competition. There are compelling reasons why our PL form didn't rise to the level of the FA and CL post AVB, and that is all about priorities, injuries and suspensions, all at the worst time , with the clock ticking and no time to recover. Our team is in desperate need of major upgrading. We need better quality players in key positions, and a total end to player power.
I can say no more than I agree with this to the very word! I'm astounded that we didn't intervene quicker than we did!
If he couldn't before then why now? Mikel may be limited but he can play football. Parker wouldn't get in the Chelsea team
Where to start? The idea that his ability to get into the team 8 years ago holds any bearing on his ability to to get into the team today is clearly absurd, DL He's a better player than he was back then having broken back into the England team and staked a permanent place, meanwhile picking up recognition in each of the last two season end awards. When he was at Chelsea he was competing against the best holding midfielder in the World for a place in your team, Mikel isn't even the best holding midfielder on his street.
