Because the Tory party is still called the "party of the rich" when what has happened over the past couple of decades is that the Tory MPs have become more representative of the not rich. Labour have done the reverse going from the party of the working class to being the party of the rich. The EU and the "globalisation excuse" is seen as (whether you agree with it or not) working for the rich. Rich people love it because they can pull in cheaper labour, they can lobby hard for policy that benefits the big corporations and wipe out the smaller competitors. This continual narrative of "nasty party" or "party of the rich" is the country in denial. We as a country have become convinced that everyone should have this "standard of living" that is the same as middle earners and no-one should have to make any choices or sacrifices at all. The whole of the liberal society is so quick to jump on anything and suggest this generation is worse off than their parents when most at the bottom even are sat in houses with "stuff" everywhere that previous generations would have had to make choices over and the establishment have pushed this narrative of "you can have it all." This idea that those at the bottom are stupid and brainless and are happy to sit at home as long as they have their free money is in the main BS. It is a view that establishment and elite have pushed and somehow convinced a huge section of society that it is true. It is only true for a small portion of those that are in this situation and they are voting against it in their droves. You are right in that Labour was infiltrated by marxists and communists in the 70s and another attempt was made in the eighties with Hatton and his lot but you are entirely wrong about the Tories being infiltrated. They were a party of rich businessmen that were looking after their own interests and those around them. They are now a party that is much more representative of many more facets of society and you can see that in the polling and the results. People in this country need to wake up and realise that some "tough love" is needed for many and the lack of "tough love" is meaning that the real problems of poverty are not dealt with because the neo-liberal / globalist / SJW parts of the establishment are far too concerned with trying to put people who are not in poverty in their figures to push their agendas. This is true of many other problems in the country including racism, bigotry, LGBTQ and on and on. They are hurting the causes they purport to be fighting for by trying to make the problem seem much much bigger. I have said for years that for most people outside of London this whole "cost of living" has little to do with the cost of living at all. Yes wages have stagnated up here outside of the state jobs BUT the big ticket items are now things that people are told they should be entitled to and there is no-one that dares (even Tories are tippy toeing around the issue) say it like it is. That being "you are not entitled to have everything. You aspire to improve and prioritise what you can afford.) It would be much more beneficial to have financial advisors in the food banks than SJWs just take baseline attendances as the result of poverty. I am not saying people have their income/expenditure checked before giving them food from the foodbanks but for them to talk through people's expenditure with them, help them, advise them. We can;t continue going on where everybody thinks they can just spend, spend, spend and then think about priorities later. As for the Labour problem. Labour has no chance because they are in denial. They blame their decline on Corbyn and will continue to do so. Their real problem is with their brand. They are seen as the party of the elite and are toxic to the working classes. Corbyn adds to that and their EU stance adds more. Their problem is much more than Corbyn. On the UKIP front you can complain all you like about the Tories but the Tories polling is increasing and it is that increase that is keeping UKIP down there in the low teens. You should be thankful that a decent proportion of the former Labour voters are voting blue and not purple. Are the Tories perfect? nowhere near but while these SJWs and activists continue to focus on their agenda rather than the reality of the problem then this will continue. People can see these groups for what they are. They aren't interested in reducing poverty. They are interested in maintaining the social order by convincing people that they are hard done by when they aren't and that negates the effect that they can have on people that really do need help. For example I don't disagree with Tory policies on the disabled however I do disagree with how it is being actioned. It is ridiculous to be saying people are fit for work when they aren't but it is right that those that can work are assessed as such. Same with the recent tax credits problem. The assessments are the problem here not the policy and SJWs jumping on the policy when it is the implementation that is wrong is the main problem. Blair was worse than even Thatcher in terms of capitalism. That he did it behind a left mask is by the by. The results of Blair's era was to make everybody feel entitled and oppressed while he got on with filling the pockets of the uber capitalist supposed liberals.
Your comment about the Conservative Party being "not solely of the rich" - paraphrasing somewhat is true in that the people who voted Conservative in Sleaford are certainly not wealthy, as Sleaford itself is far from rich. The same is true in places like Gosport and Fareham. Where it might still be the party of the wealthy is in the Thames Valley, St Albans, Richmond, Winchester. In effect there are two Conservative Parties - one for the elite, the other maybe representative of large numbers of people on certain issues like immigration, and the issue which tipped the way of Brexit, that of apparent regaining "Sovereignty."
Unfortunately Jeremy Corbyn has yet to realise that we are no longer in the 1970s. I think it's fair to say that both the Tories and Labour are broadly pro Europe. But both in different ways have been overtaken by vocal minorities in their own ranks. In the case of Labour, that minority has actually grabbed the leadership. It's also looking like the wider public, all over Europe and the USA, is drifting alarmingly toward extremism and leaving the mainstream parties looking exposed. That's pretty much what happened the last time capitalism had an existential crisis and began to fail large numbers of citizens.
I'd be reluctant to read too much into what party members think because the numbers are so small. Even Labour's recently increased membership is still only a tiny fraction of the country.
That constituency has never voted Labour. Not even in 97. It has nothing to do with wealth and ignoring yesterday's by election the Tory voteshare has increase at each election: 1997 - Tory 43.9%, Labour 34.3% 2001 - Tory 49.7%, Labour 32.0% 2005 - Tory 50.9%, Labour 26.5% 2010 - Tory 51.6%, Labour 16.9% 2015 - Tory 56.2%, Labour 17.3% 2016 - Tory 53.5%, Labour 10.2% The story that isn't being told because it doesn't suit the narrative is the decline of Labour since Blair got in!!! Their narrative is all Corbyn but they ignore that it is a Labour problem more than Corbyn. This is masking Labour's demise outside of the metropolitan areas. The Tories were increasing their vote shares in this constituencey even when they were seen as Pro-EU. Like you say these are not wealthy people. The very slight downturn is mainly because there was a focus on this election and therefore lots of candidates including independents etc but also because of low turnout in a by election because these constituencies are high turnouts at GE in the 70 - 75% region and this by election turnout was only half that at 37.1% The media/establishment seemed convinced there would be some story here because of the "inbreds" and the "UKIP" question. The reality is that the Tories were in no trouble, UKIP lost voteshare, The LibDem single issue party (EU) gained some voteshare. It is nothing to do with racism, bigotry, stupid folks etc and everything to do with people not listening to the mainstream media's presentation of "the facts" and voting from experiences. Thats a lot of "anecdotal evidence" that people have voted on just as they did before the 24 hours propaganda machine was as developed as it is now. There isn't much crime in Lincolnshire nor is there much poverty. There isn't a lot of racism either. This is a county that has a huge amount of the EU migration, a county that gets along with that migrant population but that does not mean they cannot see through this narrative "from the top" that it is not affecting them. People here work hard, they don't like "scroungers" of which there are the normal amount and they don't like being told that their hospitals and schools are not overwhelmed when they are. They can see these things with their own eyes, have experienced it and vote accordingly. Doesn't matter how many politicians, businesses or metro TV channels say it is not true. I am pretty representative of many people. There are lots of folks here that are in relationships with EU migrants and other immigrants as well as mixed race relationships both British born. They all still voted leave. They aren't racists and that is why EDL marches or "patriot" groups protesting at the building of mosques are less than a hundred. The problem we do have however countrywide is the modern "liberal" way that they make that hundred to be a problem bigger than it is. The rest of us ignore both the narrative and the <100 idiots and vote on what we see and experience and we deal with racists and bigots in the way they should be dealt with. Challenged, put down and ignored.
This comment I read on another platform sort of says what I think and what many others like me think. Much higher educated than me though and better vocabulary as well as grammar. If the elites did not foresee the uprising of a defensive populist movement then it demonstrates their arrogance and how out of touch they are with their employers, the people. Governments are elected to serve the people, not dictate totalitarianism. Even citing populism as a derogatory term shows how arrogant they are, when it simply implies the majority of folk who elect them. When they disdain the people, corruption and dictatorship follows. The electorate have been too blind, compliant and weak - too brow-beaten and guilt-laden with leftist liberal beratements of our xenophobia in the face of blatant cultural and social economic suicide. We are not even permitted divergent non-liberal views in this Orwellian mind-police state for fear of "hate speech". Such is the propaganda and mind control. The West is being normalised to a global average, an enforced homogenous multicultural, low wage, hyper inflationary, hyper competitive, corporate driven form of faux liberal, fascist, totalitarianism. That we have only now finally reached tipping point and decided to react after decades of this liberal fascism is testament to our tolerance, not of being right wing. Forget not that fascism originated in the left, not the right. But a bullet from the left is just as deadly as from any direction, ultimately it's the same thing. Unfortunately for everyone this faux liberal experiment has utterly destroyed what we were handed as custodians for future generations. We have allowed the elite to leverage white guilt via an army of self hating, screeching liberals to not only commit cultural and economic suicide but to destroy centuries of enlightened progress almost overnight.
[QUOTE=" There are lots of folks here that are in relationships with EU migrants and other immigrants as well as mixed race relationships both British born. They all still voted leave. They aren't racists. [/QUOTE] You have to be careful here - just because someone is in a relationship with someone from a different country does not actually automatically make them not a racist - comments like "yes I love X, he/shes great but I wouldn't want to live in a street full of them!" are not uncommon and there are thousands of British men who basically go and buy a nice compliant woman/wife from the Far East. That seems pretty racist to me! If you asked my friends here in Serbia - what do you think of the British / Americans? They're all a bunch of *********s (oh except you John, you're OK, we know you, you're not like the rest)[/QUOTE]
This estate is full of mixed race relationships. Most of them British born black and white. These are the people that voted leave and are labelled as racist. We all mix together. Nothing to do with not wanting to be in a room full of them. There is a big difference between wanting to retain your culture and wanting to replace the old culture with your own. Most people that come here are the former. They accept British culture but still want to enjoy their own culture within it. That is not a problem and most of us enjoy doing something different and sharing their culture with them. There are some though that refuse to accept British culture and then we have our own liberal lot that seem to want to destroy British culture entirely while protecting minorities rights to their own cultures. Some of the Portuguese music at my missus' and her friends gatherings or parties even sing in English. I think many have this view that the English in these Brexit regions refuse to accept anything foreign. If that were the case there would be a lot of problems because cars are blasting out music from all regions of the world, languages spoken from all parts of the world. They don't hide away in fear of strangers knowing they aren't British because they aren't scared. The isolated incidents should be dealt with but thankfully they are not as big a problem as the media wants to suggest. All these racist, homophobic, bigoted, xenophobic assumptions of the Brexit areas are way off the mark. My postman again turned up with bright pink nails and lipstick and mascara with his tights and skirt on (with walking boots.) Does this round everyday on what is "officially" labelled as in the bottom 10% of the UKs sinkhole estates. HE doesn't bat an eyelid because he doesn't need to. People might think it's wierd but as with everything each to their own. I think most so called liberals are just far too happy to accept generalisations rather than accept that we aren't all stupid and ill informed. That we are guilty by association and too thick not to make the same link as the remainers did with the silly bus slogan. The one you've all filled the words in. Most people round here wouldn't want any extra money going into the NHS until they've sorted out where all the money is going.
Not being funny Imps, but I'm glad I don't live round your way mate. I'd be unable to keep my mouth shut, and end up getting in a fight outside the chip shop every time I went out. Your postman sounds a hoot though.
ImpSaint - You're obviously quite wound up about this subject! (I didn't vote because it was so complicated as a Brit living abroad to vote - you had to send a request to your former electoral officer (who I didn't know) to accept a postal vote with another British voter to confirm your identity before you could be accepted to even register) I guess there weren't many votes from abroad and it would have tipped the vote the other way. (Serbia's not in the EU) Not saying which way I would have voted - but what advantages does leaving the EU have for the UK?
You would have to stop me. I don't go in the chip shop and only pass it on the way to the Post Office. We don't eat that greasy stuff here. Moussaka tonight and Sushi tomorrow.
Stops the big corporate machine. The EU is nothing more than a political front for big business. Europe's protector of corporatism and cronyism all in the name of its people but only for those that benefit. It is the same reason Hillary lost. False political bodies that pretend to help little folks when what they are doing is creaming all the money into the 1%. You lot just have't realised it yet and still believe the propaganda. Right - I'm off to read my Ayn Rand book.
The Trump transition team has issued a list of 74 questions for the Energy Department, asking officials there to identify which department employees and contractors have worked on forging an international climate pact as well as domestic efforts to cut the nation’s carbon output. The questionnaire requests a list of those individuals who have taken part in international climate talks over the past five years and “which programs within DOE are essential to meeting the goals of President Obama’s Climate Action Plan.” The questionnaire, which one Energy Department official described as unusually “intrusive” and a matter for departmental lawyers, has raised concern that the Trump transition team was trying to figure out how to target the people, including civil servants, who have helped implement policies under Obama. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.456040b52e8c US going to **** the world up.
It was fairly predictable that Trump would renege on the climate change agreements, but I didn't expect it to start yet!
I know it is not exactly what you are saying ... but never underestimate a psychopath. It is a mistake that has been made over all the generations of my lifetime and always leads to chaos, mainly bloody chaos at that. Now we have a president elect who questions reason for false economic ends. I have 4 grand kids and I genuinely fear for their futures today more than I did a month ago. There has been much discussion on this forum thread about how we have got to where we are. Differing views on the disenfranchised, differing views on popular-ism, (whatever that means). BUT, It has left us with, in my view, a man without conscience, who will assume the most powerful office in the western world.....
but how does leaving the EU stop the big corporate machine? Isn't the UK big corporate machine working out how to make the most money from us leaving the EU?
I believe Hitler wanted to stop the big corporate machine - worked for a while - was popular with the masses - but sort of got out of hand - killed a few million people - and didn't really do a Germany on it's own a power of good. A bit of tax the rich, feed the poor, til there are no rich no more namby pamby politics is probably a better way to release the ridiculous amount of money tied up by the 1% doing nothing to help the world?
