The only answer i have got from SH was to look on Google...... Well i certainly would not tell my students to just look on the internet!
But isn't that the favoured response of all Tories? Jeremy Hunt's invaluable advice to counter the lack of NHS doctors due to his axe job was to use Google to self diagnose...
Nah - all kids are expert cutters & pasters, but they need us to tell them how to actually understand what they have cut & paste. Although, come to think of it, Tory markers probably wouldn't realise what was in front of them...
Posts 181 to 187 show why this forum now has about 5 regular posters - listen to yourselves. Anti Tory and SH bullying trash. Yorkshire asks for evidence that tens of thousands were killed by Castro in Cuba. Exactly what would he like to have someone on here provide? Does he seriously deny the widely accepted figures that give 10,000 as a low estimate and 100,000 as the high? Andy explained away some deaths and also pointed out Castro may have only been "responsible" for the deaths rather than killed them himself. Small comfort to the dead and their families.The mock trials and executions etc were not fabricated. You mock the internet. Where do you clever people get your facts and figures - the internet or its non "e" equivalent - books? All Tories response is to google is it? If that is what you believe I pity you. Now for Andy's much vaunted post 62. A self confessed admirer of Castro who even has written a musical about him. Not an academic expert but someone like Andy who has "visited" Cuba and spoken to some people. She denied none of the abuse allegations, none of the homophobia allegations, none of the human rights allegations, she admitted many Cubans did not like Castro - especially she said the young. Her response was only to talk about things being bad in the 60s - not that they stayed bad. She says many people in Cuba blame the American embargo. That is correct and true. Equally she overlooks that those most opposed to Castro fled Cuba. You cannot dismiss Cuban exiles in Florida for being in America - they are there because they fled or died. How can the dead now speak against Castro? If this is the best positive a Cuban apologist can make of being pro Castro then I think Andy needs to find someone else. It is no argument to point to other countries being worse. One person asks would you trade your freedom for better health and education - that is what Cuba got. Finally of course most Cubans still love their country. I would still love England even if Jeremy Corbyn came to power. Castro was no hero - he was a brutal, murderous dictator. I am pleased to see the anti-Tory set on here lined up in favour of Castro - it tells me all I need to know about their judgement. Go on now slag me off. Ignore me, tell me I officially bore you all. Tell me I love America or read the Daily Mail and am a stooge of the international media. You do nothing but attack those who express opposing views - almost now completely reduced to SH - as like in Cuba you have silenced the main opposition.
It would be an agreeable world if everyone knew the differences between fact, speculation, generalisation, stereotype and fantasy. However, all the teachers in the world struggle in the face of the stubborn, the short-sighted, the prejudiced and the plain unteachable!
I have read your post, and will reply in full later, but one question comes up. You mention a 'trade off ' between freedom on the one hand, and health and education on the other, as if it were an 'either or' situation. What type of 'freedom' can you have without health and education ? How can an illiterate or a sick person be genuinely free ? Many people talk of 'freedom', but within capitalism, with so much gulf between rich and poor, access to that 'freedom' is conditioned by a person's economic resources - at the bottom of the scale there is precious little of it.
Thank you for watching the video from post 62. With respect, sh does goad and run, rarely posts anything that is other than diatribe. He's silent not because he's "bullied", it's because he won't engage in debate. If you use a verb like "confess" regarding whether someone likes or admires Castro, you presume they think it is wrong to do so. She didn't and I don't. You don't have to be an academics to know something about, or to have an opinion on, Castro. The homophobia allegations are not denied. That was a product of the time. Your beloved Thatcher was a horrendous homophobe. The subject of the interview had, like I had, spent some time in Cuba, amongst Cubans. How can this experience be less relevant than the totally ill-informed rants of the DM, DE and similar rags from which the majority of the population draw their political opinion? If Castro was a "brutal" "murderer", then so was Thatcher, Churchill, Eden... any Tory Prime Minister who has sent troops into conflict. Most Cubans love Castro, not just Cuba. Most Britons did not love eg Thatcher, even if they loved their country. Finally, I'm not slagging you off. I'm grateful you watched and responded to the video. SH is not bullied. He teases. He goads and runs, goads and runs. He's the man who pokes a stick at the caged tiger then complains when it roars. I welcome opposing views, too. If we all agree all the time, there would be no debate.
You did not welcome my views earlier so I welcome your change of heart. I am not going to defend SH - I will let him do that if he wants. However as a neutral much of the addresses to him look like bullying to me. Still - let him answer. Self confess does not necessarily mean "wrong" People self confess to being chocoholics !! She was presented as an academic - University of Southampton - in fact she gave personal not well researched views. You and I may have views but the BBC does not invite us onto air. Her views are no more valid than any non expert. What relevance has Thatcher? You could name a million homophobes. He was a homophobe - till he died, not just in the 60s. It is and was bad. You cannot defend one bad person by naming another. Did Thatcher re-criminalise being gay anyway? There is a quote " a little learning is a dangerous thing". A small bit of personal knowledge of a country may actually lead to an ill informed rather than a better informed view unless you are a genuine researcher who has travelled the length and breadth of Cuba and interviewed a good cross section of people. Are you claiming that? I think you will find that even your ill informed rags have better knowledge and researchers than you credit. They may be vile rags but they do pay reporters. You are so superior to the majority of the population are you? What rags inform you then? Tribune? Momentum? ??? IF ???? Castro was a brutal murderer?? Yes he was. Again naming others does not spare him. He imprisoned and tortured and had killed thousands. Only the equivalent of holocaust deniers deny it. Finally Thatcher won 3 General Elections - how many did Castro win? Facts and evidence for "most Cubans love Cuba please ( you keep asking SH for evidence). Even then you only mean those who were not killed, silenced, fled or deported. Even the "apologist" implies he is not popular amongst the young.
I don't feel bullied despite the attempts of the predominately lefty posters, there just is not the level of intellect or experience to challenge my views. What is described as goading is stating facts that are obviously unpalatable regarding the rejection of left wing policies throughout Europe and the victory of the Brexit side. The Labour Party has committed suicide, the UK is leaving the EU and the EU is becoming more of a political and financial mess. I can see why the lefties need to draw attention away from the realities of life. I see Andy more as a vulnerable pussy cat than a tiger
I think Asimov that you can see here an example of what we are up against - 'Not the level of intellect or experience to challenge my view'. This says it all - we have been putting up with this for a long time now (and a lot worse), you have come in at the tail end and do not know the whole story. There is nobody on here that has travelled the length and breadth of Cuba, spoken with people at all ends of the social scale (it would be necessary to do this in Spanish), or who has lived there for any period. But the same applies to a lot of countries - does this prevent us from giving any opinion on them ? I also have opinions on China, though I have never been there. Was anyone on here ever in the USSR ?
I declined to get involved in a heavy debate on Cuba because of my lack of experience in the subject. Notwithstanding there were many thousands of Cubans killed on the orders of Castro.
Asimov, luckily you were on here when Cologne went on about 'political party membership' for months. Bored everybody rigid.
There would be many one sided discussions on here if we only debated about countries we have personal knowledge of. Of all the people on here it is probably myself that has had the most personal contact to people who were brought up under 'so called' Communism - because they make up a quarter of all Germans. Life in the GDR. was, for the most people, ordinary. For the 99% of people, who did not have contact to the Staasi or the Volkspolizei - they all had jobs, there was no homelessness, there was no sexual discrimination, they had free medical treatment for all. There was very little crime, they had access to Western media (though this wasn't encouraged) - they even learned English at School (albeit after Russian). There were shortages of some things (after the unification many East Germans did not know what to do with bananas) and so, every time there was a queue of more than 3 people anywhere then others would join it thinking that it must be something interesting. Most people used their gardens for growing vegetables (to balance the shortages in the shops). There was even a punk and hippy scene in the GDR (not really approved of - but the authorities were relatively powerless). Travelling was not really on the agenda - Bulgarian Riviera, Czechoslovakia and Hungary was the limit. So, all in all, it was a mixed picture - for the 99%. Certainly many people who were brought up there feel nostalgic - other than in respect of the travel possibilities and the bigger cars. But was the GDR. Communist, or just a colony of the USSR ? What would Karl Marx have thought of the USSR ? My contention is that he would have been executed under Stalin, or sent to Siberia by the others. For him the end goal of Communism was the dissolution of the state - when all decision making functions, and all political power had moved to the base of the pyramid - the role of the state in this being a transitory one. The State in the USSR just went on consolidating more and more power to itself - in direct contradiction to Marx. According to Marx the dominant economic form should be the workers cooperative - where all workers are in direct control of the means of production. There was not one single Workers cooperative in any Warsaw Pact country, or in any country allied to them - there are more of these in Bilbao or Santander or any other Basque town. There is also more direct ownership in Israel than there had ever been in the USSR.
Go out and get a proper life somewhere - if your prime amusement in life is to come on here, contribute nothing, and just snigger at others in order to provoke some kind of reaction then I really pity you.
You miss my point. Of course none of us have in depth knowledge of Cuba - that is my point. We can give views on everything but I question a person trying to "one-up" ( I avoided saying trump) others by referring to personal experience. It is only as relevant in my view as someone else who has read articles on a subject. We are not researchers so our personal knowledge is that "little learning". Yes we can share what little experience we have - knowing we are talking about family and friends so not actually giving a balanced view. In my "tail end" view I keep seeing people trash others sources of information. The Mail or Express, also the BBC - but does anyone think any other newspaper is much better? Now apparently people who use the internet are Jeremy Hunt style Conservatives. Just where are these "gold" sources of information that we are supposed to use? I joined a year ago - many people stalk before they write. I have watched how people on here express their views. I form my own opinions - and for the record I try to look at lots of sources in forming a view - yet time and again on here there are snide comments when someone says something another does not agree with that they are "Daily Mail" reader or some such. Arrogant, wrong and not any proper argument. Perhaps Andy's "majority of the population" drawing their information from rags are not the idiots he thinks they are. As a school governor I am forced to attend instruction on things like bullying and I have to say that the rounding of a group against an individual would be something I would be compelled to report to those in charge if I saw it, no matter if the "group" were provoked. SH clearly feels fine to be the victim of it - perhaps he actually likes it but for people like me looking in it is not pleasant. I assume we are all adults on here and realise that if a person argues in a way we do not like we can choose not to respond or rise to it. We have a couple of teachers / ex teachers - how would they see such behaviour in their schools? This forum appears to be in decline and I feel I know why. I was attacked in this thread when my only crime was a different viewpoint and a frustrated "can you read" comment when I felt things I said were being misrepresented. I did though receive a half apology which was better than nothing. Where has the friendliness gone? I suggest some of you read a load of threads and just see how it all comes over. It is not that everyone bar one is in the right. I am done with this particular argument. I cannot think there is anything further I can add. If I am wrong and short sighted then I will bear that cross.
You don't seem to have much of a sense of humour, have you always been dour or did you catch that from the Germans? I'm quite happy to contribute towards debating the Italian or Austrian situations. We can debate the rise in the far right in Europe caused by Merkel's vast mistake. We can discuss the merits or otherwise of the Schengen Agreement. We can discuss why the Euro has lost so much value in the last 3 years. We can discuss the failing 'English votes for English matters' act. Fire away.
