Off Topic Political Debate

Theresa May will put the decision of the UK electorate first and follow the instruction to leave the EU. The London constituencies do not represent the rest of the country. This is particularly relevant of the Labour Party where the present leaders live in the Islington bubble, might as well be on Mars.

 

By 'the rest of the country' you presumably mean the 48 % who voted no, the 30% or so which didn't vote (and could thus be interpreted as wanting 'no change'). All of those aged 16-18, who are most affected by the result. Several million disenfranchised Britons living abroad (who are also very affected by the result). Together with Scotland, Ulster and nearly all of the big cities in the north.

ps. I am sure you will come back with some soundbite or other like 'the people have spoken' (namely the carrot crunchers of middle England) - so I will preempt it.

 

You make call it soundbites I call them facts.

Parliament voted overwhelmingly to let the people decide in the form of a referendum. The people voted to leave the EU. The rules were clear beforehand and will be adhered to.
This predictable by-election decision in one of the few pro EU districts will have absolutely no effect on the negotiations.

Did you watch Question Time last night? It clearly showed the depth of feeling for Brexit once you get away from London.

 

What this by election may have shown is that the Liberals are the only party which has come out of the Brexit process with any credit, because they are the only ones who have had an unequivocal position from day one. If they really are in the sole position of being able to latch in on the remain vote then Tory seats will be very vunerable to them in the coming years.

 

1) Richmond is certainly not a Labour bubble

2) In Leeds most people voted against Brexit...and many other urban areas

This is democracy too....... and clearly with the Tory majority further decreased the Govt needs to listen to 'the people' or preside over a spilt country etc etc

 

Duh! I said Islington is a LP bubble.

This by-election will have no effect whatsoever, nor should it, on the Brexit negotiations.

 

The Liberals have been reduced to a tiny protest movement, with support in the country well well behind UKIP, who you would have thought would be extinct after their victory in the referendum.

With UKIP gaining much support in the north, the forthcoming boundary changes and the LP on its knees, the only result of a general election will be to greatly increase the Tories majority. Who knows, any excessive anti democratic delaying tactics in both chambers of parliament, we may find out next year.

 

Did Ukip win the referendum ? I thought that they were sidelined by the official Brexit campaign. I also thought that their aim was to leave immediately without going along the Article 50 route (a minefield, as they called it) - which raises the question. If your aim is a hard Brexit, then why Article 50 ?

 

You misunderstand me..... I wanted to point out that Richmond is not a centre of left wing labour ideology clearly....... and a statement has been made....

So do try to be even handed in your responses please otherwise I will have put you on ignore again.

Tories are in for a shock too in any upcoming elections .. look what happened in Cameron's constituency.

 

The UK Independence Party, will go down in history as the most successful political party in the UK, ever.

With the foolish leaders of the present Labour Party refusing to acknowledge the concerns over immigration that its traditional voters have, UKIP will decimate the LP in the North by taking votes, allowing the Tories to take seats. Scotland has been lost, most of the South has been lost and now its heartland is under threat from a right wing party. This would have been unthinkable several years ago.

The UK government is sensibly giving itself time before following the rules on leaving the EU.

 

Richmond is one of the very few areas that voted largely to remain. You cannot extrapolate this result across the country. Do what you like regarding the ignore button, you do seem to be a very delicate soul.

 

Following the rules on the EU. means activating Article 50. It means going into negotiations - the meaning of negotiation involves compromise (on both sides). There is no such thing as a one sided negotiation - it means weakening the 'hard Brexit' stance, otherwise there is no point in them. Once negotiations have started then the British side will realize that they have more to lose than the EU. does. You can go on speculating about the influence which German industry may have on those negotiations, but the facts are staring us in the face. British exports to the EU. represent 13% of our GDP. EU. exports to us represent 3% of theirs. We need them more than they need us. The fallback position is also a bleak one. The WTO rules work well for goods but not for services - under them we would not be able to put many restrictions on German exports but they would be free to shut us out of their service markets, including finance. Another issue is that some EU. countries may see British departure as an opportunity to take eg. parts of the city to Frankfurt, Paris, Amsterdam or Dublin. After negotiations are over it would take Britain years to forge similar relationships to other countries. We would also be in the position that the EU. would no longer be our 'partners', sorry to be pedantic but they would be our competitors on the World market. All in all, unless you want a trade war, then any deal struck is going to be well short of what the hard Brexiters want, and so, in a years time people may well be asking 'why do it at all'. Blair is right when he says that a second referendum cannot be ruled out.

 

Did you not listen to your President of the European Union, Donald Tusk? He clearly spelt out there would be Hard Brexit or no Brexit. It was also made clear by most senior politicians on both sides that leaving the EU means leaving the single market.

If the UK can achieve border control, sovereignty and stop paying large sums to Brussels then we can still strike a deal. The problem is the EU cannot do anything to further bolster the rising eurosceptic attitude in the EU. They will act like bully boys picking on a gang member daring to reject their failing protection racket.

 

Did you notice the EU's chief negotiator, Guy Verhofstadt has sent a gloating message to the Richmond anti - Brexit winner. This cringing act of interference in UK politics will no doubt embarrass Angela Merkel and strikes at the desperation of the rejection of these unelected eurocrats.

 

Well if you see me as a delicate soul how would you categorize yourself? Always a put down from you sh even when I politely ask you to engage in respectful debate

 

The reality is the country is split almost down the middle on Brexit ..... and a Govt has a responsibility to act in the interests of ALL not just one group of voters...

 

So, you can have hard Brexit now (ie. by pulling up the drawbridge and tearing up all agreements) - or you can do it in 2 years time. You think that you can strike a deal which is better than the normal WTO regulations without being also prepared to give as well as take ? Or you can have 'no Brexit' now, or following a second referendum once 'the deal' is known. You are asking the EU. to give full access to their markets irrespective of freedom of movement - so, you are saying to them, we want your money but we don't want you ! Have you not stopped to think how offensively that comes over ? I, for one, would not buy products from a country where my wife was not welcomed. You are saying to millions of Germans, French, Belgians, Dutch etc. 'You are not welcome here any longer', yet you expect them to buy British services and goods ? Can you answer why Theresa May has not given assurances to EU. citizens already in the UK. ? Presumably because she wants to preserve bargaining power. Yet this issue, at least, is not a bargaining matter, but rather one of international and human rights. Can anyone envisige a situation where 5 million people (in both directions) are forcefully repatriated - no, because it would become a human rights issue involving both international law and the UN.

 

Our PM tried to reach agreement on the expats this week but Merkel refused. It is her that is politicising these citizens. There are many countries that have full access to the EU market without paying Brussels, why can't we join this group?

Europeans will still be welcome in the UK but it is quite reasonable to have the right to limit the vast numbers wanting to reside in the UK due to our success compared to the alternative of staying in a failing Europe. I have already banned french products in our household in anticipation of their promised nasty stance towards the UK. No doubt the UK press will not be far behind in their anti UK campaigns.

 

It is always somebody else who is the problem? And you a 'supposed' francophile....

How anyone can expect that the other European countries will just want to share all the good elements of membership with a country who say i don't like the way you do things so I am leaving is just not congruent....

You say:

There are many countries that have full access to the EU market without paying Brussels, why can't we join this group

Who do you mean??

 

I am not aware of our negotiators threatening an aggressive stance as the French have done to us. It is quite normal to react to aggression.

I mean any country that trades with the EU without paying for access.