Boring Boring Tottenham

[remembercolinlee]

I don't expect us to win the league.
I don't expect us to win a cup or qualify for the top four.

I do however, expect to be entertained by my team.

I have no idea how to coherently structure my thoughts so forgive my ramblings.

Firstly, we are predictable beyond belief both on and off the pitch.

We were 2 strikers short last season, so in the summer we bought 1, who was untried in the premier league and who is finding it difficult to fit in (sound familiar?)
We needed wide players so we bought two on deadline day (one due to his club pissing around) and neither has added anything to our season. Is anyone on here surprised at how poor Sissoko is?

On the pitch we are so easy to stop...simply put your defence the width of the 18 yard box and stifle us cos we have no width whatsoever most games. We can all see the problem game in game out yet nothing changes.
We have scored
1, 1, 1, 4, 2, 1, 2, 1, 1, 0, 1, 3, 1 in our 13 premier league matches.
In the CL we have scored
1, 1, 0, 0, 1.
And in the league cup it is 5, 1.

Remove the match v League 1 Gillingham and in 19 matches we have scored 1 goal or less 13 times.
And over 2 just twice.
In total we have scored 28 goals in 20 matches (including Gillingham).
6 of those were penalties.

Yet after most matches the players and manager talk about how well we played, how we deserved more etc.

The truth is that the players are not delivering and the manager is not delivering.

Final thing. In work I am expected to give my all every day. No matter how crap I feel, how unconfident or how pissed off I am, I deliver. The kids I work with have a right to that. This is the case for most people in work no matter what they do.
And imho it should be the same for the players. They are not delivering entertaining football or even do the basics for a full 90 mins. and that is not ok in my eyes.

Everyone needs to take a good hard look at themselves and start again next week.
Coys

 

[PowerSpurs]

Which striker 'proven in the PL' did we miss out on?

 

[remembercolinlee]

Which striker 'proven in the PL' did we miss out on?

So I do think that I may have been a tad over the top but in my defence it was a piss poor 2nd half!

I honestly think we could have tried for Mane...he may have still gone to Liverpool but we had CL football on offer. I also think we could have tried for an experienced player such as Shane Long as a back up.
Ighalo might have been worth a try.
All 3 of those have shown the closing down and working back attributes that Pochettino requires.
We may not have got them and we may have tried for them (but I think that unlikely as nothing stays out of the press).
I have no issue with buying Janssen but we clearly needed two strikers and could done a lot better with our buying imo.

 

[The RDBD]

"I have no idea how to coherently structure my thoughts so forgive my ramblings."

That is because the way things are going this season, you fear you will keep your
appointment with the Wicker Man.

 

[Dier Hard]

I think my post in the Chelsea match thread somewhat answers/ counters some of your issues:

I've discussed our injury problems before but I feel I really need to highlight just how problematic it's been as I think some of the criticism of the team/ manager has been far too harsh. Take a look at our best XI of last season - which so far we haven't been able to field collectively once this campaign:

Hugo
Walker, Toby, Jan, Rose
Dier, Dembele
Lamela, Eriksen, Alli
Kane

Those in bold (plus Wanyama who's now a fixture in the side) are the only players who've been able to be called upon for our 13 Prem games so far, that's a gutting statistic. Can anyone honestly wonder after seeing that as to why things haven't always been pretty and peachy on the pitch? I get we've played ugly in some games, some performances could've sent us to sleep but when we've been without so many key players in just 13 different Prem games, it's no wonder we haven't found a consistent rhythm to our play. Poch is having to deal with one or two (sometimes more!) forced changes each week. Despite all the problems to the squad, it took an in-form Chelsea team at Stamford Bridge to inflict our first league defeat of the season in which the result was very harsh seeing as both sides dominated one half each. In that match alone we were without both LBs, our best CB and our hardest working AM while Kane and Dembele (possibly Alli too) are still a game or two away from being 100% fit.

A defeat is always disappointing, especially to a rival but the bigger picture tells me that if we can go to Stamford Bridge with a depleted & weakened side and lose due to one sloppy mistake in an even game, then when we're at full strength we're going to be a real force. Whispers on social media say both Toby and Lamela could be back next week, while Rose will obviously have served his suspension. That could then finally allow us to start playing our best team on paper, of course some are going to be lacking match sharpness so it will still be a couple of games before we can start reaching peak form but I think the next few weeks is going to be a crucial stage for the club providing we don't get hit with any more injury problems.

It's so hard to get a rhythm going at the moment when each week Poch isn't 100% sure who's going to be fit. Our team hasn't been able to get a consistent flow going like it did in 14/15 and 15/16 so I think it's very harsh to be bemoaning the style of play or saying the manager needs to do better when he's working with limited options.

I do agree though that we should've gone for a Prem-proven striker, like you mentioned on here and in the transfer thread, I would've taken Shane Long in a heartbeat as I think he suits the exact philosophy Poch requires and he offers a different option to Harry/ Vince with his pace.

Thankfully, (though I won't speak too soon!) it seems like most of our players are on the cusp of returning, Kane, Dembele and Alli are probably a game away from being fully fit, while rumours reckon Toby and Lamela will be back for the Swansea game, both won't be at 100% but we're getting near to finally being able to pick our strongest team. I think once that happens, give that some time to then really judge where the team is at, I'm pretty confident we can go on a tear when everyone's back fit.

 

[Sidney Fiddler]

Sissoko was pure madness buy . Even worse than the wasted money on a very poor Darren Bent .

Keep it up
Sid
(Suffolks no 1 eco luxury yurt retreat for the thinking hipster of all ages )
Today we will be playing Serge Gainsboug
for your enjoyment.

 

[NSIS]

Which striker 'proven in the PL' did we miss out on?

We could have done worse than retain Defoe!...

 

[PowerSpurs]

We could have done worse than retain Defoe!...

I'm in a minority of one on this one probably but if our objective is to compete with the likes of City and Chelsea then why would we think a player like Defoe is the answer?
In the current set up he would either not be playing or keep Jansson off the pitch and we really need to give him time to impress

 

[NSIS]

I'm in a minority of one on this one probably but if our objective is to compete with the likes of City and Chelsea then why would we think a player like Defoe is the answer?
In the current set up he would either not be playing or keep Jansson off the pitch and we really need to give him time to impress

Because he scores goals! As he has consistently proved in the PL.

I'm not suggesting that he be used as a first choice striker, except when necessary. But as an impact sub, or when there are injuries to our main striker, as there was recently, he'd be ideal, IMO.

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

Because he scores goals! As he has consistently proved in the PL.

I'm not suggesting that he be used as a first choice striker, except when necessary. But as an impact sub, or when there are injuries to our main striker, as there was recently, he'd be ideal, IMO.

The issue we have at the moment isn't getting the ball into the net, regardless of what Squawka think when linking us to another random striker, the issue is getting the ball to someone to stick it in the net to begin with - an issue mainly caused by Lamela's absence and Eriksen being so far off the boil he's practically an ice cube.

 

[PowerSpurs]

Because he scores goals! As he has consistently proved in the PL.

I'm not suggesting that he be used as a first choice striker, except when necessary. But as an impact sub, or when there are injuries to our main striker, as there was recently, he'd be ideal, IMO.

Goals are not the only way to judge a player. Darren Bent has a slightly better goals per game record than Defoe but everyone agrees he is a worse player. To misquote PnP would we play with 10 men every week if we could have a goal every second game awarded randomly? I don't think so. I think having Defoe in the side costs us more goals than he scores both in extra ones conceded and in other not scored.

 

[PowerSpurs]

The issue we have at the moment isn't getting the ball into the net, regardless of what Squawka think when linking us to another random striker, the issue is getting the ball to someone to stick it in the net to begin with - an issue mainly caused by Lamela's absence and Eriksen being so far off the boil he's practically an ice cube.

Agreed - playing someone like Defoe will just reduce our ability to create goals - he will score some out of nowhere to partly make up for that but it won't be an overall gain.

 

[NSIS]

Goals are not the only way to judge a player. Darren Bent has a slightly better goals per game record than Defoe but everyone agrees he is a worse player. To misquote PnP would we play with 10 men every week if we could have a goal every second game awarded randomly? I don't think so. I think having Defoe in the side costs us more goals than he scores both in extra ones conceded and in other not scored.

Simple fact is, we aren't scoring goals. Agreed part of that is down to lack of midfield creativity, but it's also been down to Kane being missing.

Janssen may or may not come good. But the fact is the can't buy a goal right now.

I've heard all the arguments against Defoe over the years. Yet, still, here he is banging in goals in the PL.

Going back to my youth, it was an argument used against Jimmy Greaves - he only scores goals, doesn't work hard enough, etc. He just carried on doing what he was the best at - sticking the ball in the back of the opposition net.

Look at it any way you like. Goals win matches, nothing else. If you score one more than your opponents, you win. Simple as.

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

Agreed - playing someone like Defoe will just reduce our ability to create goals - he will score some out of nowhere to partly make up for that but it won't be an overall gain.

Of the many, many things wrong with the Santini Era was how, when it was suggested the team were moving the ball up the pitch so slowly that the ref was far more likely to blow for half time than offside, he waved it off by saying Keane and Defoe were both capable goalscorers - which did not address how the ball trundled up the pitch with the speed of a drugged tortoise, or how attacks would take shape if the full backs were not permitted to advance past the halfway line.

 

[PowerSpurs]

Simple fact is, we aren't scoring goals. Agreed part of that is down to lack of midfield creativity, but it's also been down to Kane being missing.

Janssen may or may not come good. But he fact is the can't buy a goal right now.

I've heard all the arguments against Defoe over the years. Yet, still, here he is banging in goals in the PL.

Going back to my youth, it was an argument used against Jimmy Greaves - he only scores goals, doesn't work hard enough, etc. He just carried on doing what he was the best at - sticking the ball in the back of the opposition net.

Look at it any way you like. Goals win matches, nothing else. If you score one more than your opponents, you win. Simple as.

Comparing Defoe to Greaves is like comparing Jimmy Neighbour to George Best
And my point is that I'm not convinced our goals for minus goals conceded would be higher with Defoe in the team even if he knocked in his usual 15 per season.

 

[NSIS]

Comparing Defoe to Greaves is like comparing Jimmy Neighbour to George Best
And my point is that I'm not convinced our goals for minus goals conceded would be higher with Defoe in the team even if he knocked in his usual 15 per season.

The only comparison I'm making is that they both had their detractors. Yet both just carried on letting their goals do the talking..

What you're looking for, a top or world class young striker, is rarer than rocking horse ****. If you do find one you'll almost certainly be in fierce competition with top clubs who have far deeper pockets than ours.

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

The only comparison I'm making is that they both had their detractors. Yet both just carried on letting their goals do the talking..

What you're looking for, a top or world class young striker, is rarer than rocking horse ****. If you do find one you'll almost certainly be in fierce competition with top clubs who have far deeper pockets than ours.

Errm...don't we already have one of those?

 

[NSIS]

Errm...don't we already have one of those?

When he's on form, yes.

But he's also been injured and the goals have dried up. Janssen may come good. But equally, he may turn out to be another Rebrov or Postiga.

I never suggested JD should be relied on as a first choice striker, although he can still do that if absolutely necessary. We'd have been far wiser to keep,him.

 

[PowerSpurs]

What I am actually arguing is that we will win more matches with Janssen not scoring at all, than with Defoe scoring at his historical rate because 1) Others will score more and 2) We will concede less. I know this is just a matter of opinion but the fact that Defoe's current team can barely win a match despite his scoring rate doesn't do anything to dissuade me.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

What I am actually arguing is that we will win more matches with Janssen not scoring at all, than with Defoe scoring at his historical rate because 1) Others will score more and 2) We will concede less. I know this is just a matter of opinion but the fact that Defoe's current team can barely win a match despite his scoring rate doesn't do anything to dissuade me.

West Ham and Leicester are **** at the moment. That doesn't make Payet and Mahrez bad players.
The Spam side that went down in the 02/03 season was one of their more talented ones.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002–03_West_Ham_United_F.C._season#First-team_squad

You could probably make a side that would challenge for the top 6 by cherry-picking the bottom half teams.
League positions don't reflect the talent of individuals at the club, especially lone players.
Modric and Bale were in our 2 points from 8 games side.