Match Day Thread 2016/17 Premier League, Cups & Euro Watch

I don't know if it happens already but what if Germany or Argentina wore a symbol which represented killing British people?

James Maclean refused to wear the poppy because of the killing of innocent people in Northern Ireland. And he was vilified for it. Respect works both ways.

I'm all for showing respect to people who lost their lives for us but there is no need to do it during a football match. Keep these things and politics out of football. Football is a universal game which brings people together - things like this create division.

 

Any penalty and we should withdraw from the WC.

 

I totally agree with McClean having the right to refuse to wear one, but surely its Fifa that has politicised the situation rather than the actual wearing of a poppy on an armband and holding a minutes silence in a stadium in the UK, if hypothetically though England had been playing the Republic of Ireland on the night and had to stand for a minutes silence to commorate those who died 100 years ago in The Easter Rising would that have been acceptable to England?

I somehow doubt it.

 

Its not political it's human compassion though. Soldiers that died on both sides, none of them wanted to fight and kill people... just following orders and the football match between the 2 showed that they didn't hate each other. They were just doing s job when it had to be done.

 

The poppy symbol isn't about celebrating killing though is it? It's about commemorating the fallen. If the Germans or Argentinians chose to wear a symbol of remembrance for their own dead, why would we find this offensive?

 

For a big ****ing scrap

 

I can see both sides.

On one hand, we have the history and the tradition here of wearing poppies and the commemoration is meant to honour the dead and their sacrifices.

On the other hand from FIFA's perspective, I can see how they view it as also political. Would we have done this with such fervour and with such regularity if we had lost the war? No if we are honest. So it is also a celebration of the victory (ies). What if all countries decided to celebrate their victories with these symbols especially when playing against one of their old foes? We are not only talking about usually well behaved western crowds. German crowds may not get too heated up about these but what about crwods in South America, Africa and the far east where they tend to be more "volatile" and quicker to get wound up ?

The reality is that we can have these commemorations/celebrations/ceremonies/symbols outside the match. In the stadium, in and out, everywhere even on the training tops on the players before the match during warm up. Then when the match starts, no symbols and no poppies. All sensitivities respected and no one has any need to be aggrieved.

 

This is exactly what I told my annoyingly overly liberal housemate.

 

For me this breaks into 3 things

1. It is for a reason. and an important one driven one hopes not by a rabid nationalism but quite the opposite by a need to never forget the lunacy of conflict

2. It is quite a useful political tool and badge of patriotism. as seen by the mclean stuff and making foreign players etc wear them too in the country. it is kind of like how the yanks wear the us flag.. symbols are always highjacked. The poppy is no different. MR blair saw to that in 2003 when he made sure we were all off to war and wore his poppy prominently

3. Football tried to be apolitical. The noses in troughs are a separate matter. fifa loves its kick backs sure. the point of political symbols being removed is simple. wwii.. nazi party badges. etc etc etc.. there are lots of examples.

My view is strongly that had england been hosting spain then poppies would not have been asked for. It was two home nations with a common will (somewhere) to do it.

I really believe that back in the 1990s the poppy and the cenotaph... and the trooping of the colours and the queens brithday etc were all events but they were not hyped nor forced on anyone. I watched them as much as anyone i suppose and didn't find any problem but IMO for the past 15 years or so and especially since blair made up lies to get us to help america go to war these things have been highjacked by an agenda and thats the definition of political.

I don't remember a fervour for every public figure to ear a poppy for a week in advance and bash their chests. can you?

I don't remember the yanks applauding troops in airports or wandering aorund sticking their lapel pins out with pride until george bush came in and then 9/11.

I just think that at some point this has become a political statement (and anti statment by mcclean for example) so maybe fifia have a point. Perhaps the people who pushed and pushed were doing so for reasons not related to remembering the folly of war... and perhaps a minutes silence impeccably observed is enough.


In short surely whoever applied for the permission knew fifa's policy and deliberately made this a stroy so that they could force thier agenda and the real reason for the symbol was never their issue. Just perhaps someone should have never applied and just arranged a suitable memorial as suggested above.

 

can't stand over liberal people who get really offended over everything. no poppy.. offended. poppy.. offended.

they live their lives in a state of offence.

and then they wear a safety pin so that members of LGBT community can feel safe from trump.

but a poppy saying remember the folly of war is offensive

if it comes form facebook its good. if it comes from the establishment its bad.

maybe theres logic to that i dunno

je suis charlie

je suis paris

safety pin.

all great

many decades old tradition set down after end of wars so tha tpeopel might remember and not repeat issue = bad cos Theresa may etc do it.

 

Danny Mills was spot on when he said the time and money England have invested into trying to get permission to wear the poppy and the potential fine that will follow would've been much better donated directly to the British Legion. If the FA actually cared about the poppy this is what they would've done, and made a suitable tribute in the stands like we did at the Cardiff City Stadium against Serbia.

 

well that is a good point, even if it were made by mills.

Were wales allowed do this tribute in the stands without issue? I paid little attention truthfully.

It would seem to me branding the players was a political statement.

And certainly Sky made it one once the story was leaked out.

 

Yes, or so far anyway, haven't heard about any punishment for Wales.

The rule is 'no political statements on players shirts' from what I've read. It would seem to me that England and Scotland have tried to publicly undermine FIFA by going against what they said and now FIFA are fighting back and hitting them as hard as they can.

 

probably.

I mean last week we brought a dreadful looking plastic poppy onto the field before the game so they could have been as tacky as they wanted and respect the rules of fifa which they all knew in the first place.

Like i said i do suspect a political agenda in the whole expansion of the poppy. can anyone remember when this became really forcefully required in the uk. I'm sure there was no such fuss before 2001.

 

I think Wales arranged the tribute to avoid the issues England and Scotland are having with Fifa. Didn't want to risk points or a fine.

 

Spot on Saint

 

Wayne Rooney ready for Arsenal says Manchester United boss Jose Mourinho
http://www.skysports.com/football/n...nal-says-manchester-united-boss-jose-mourinho

 

Given hes a chain smoking alcholic i would say he will be as fit as ever this weekend.

 

How do you put a price on principle?

 

Nice gesture by this Evertonian couple.

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http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/everton-fans-who-live-number-12199601