The EU debate - Part III

There does seem to be a few things that are "no go" subjects, in this country when it comes to free speech.
The Holocaust and the Hillsborough disaster to name but two of them.

 

Yes, I agree entirely. We're never going to agree on anything.

We both have a totally different outlook on just about everything!...

 

The sad thing is that neither group on here are willing to listen to anything the other says anymore.

 

Actually we don't. When it gets past the nonsense and down to discussing the actual issues, we're in agreement on a fair percentage of things. I suspect that, once you sit back and think about it, you'll realise how ridiculous it is to claim that at virtual non-entity like Nick Griffin is anyway comparable to a murderous ideology with an aim of global subjugation and control.

Here's an example.

Should extremism be challenged?
Is opening up their views to question and debate a reasonable way of doing that?
Has stifling debate worked?
Are Isis a group to challenge, or to defend?

 

I almost feel dirty saying this, but I agree with Dull on this issue.
Not about Tobes et all being apologists, not quite sure how he pulled that out of his arse. (Apologists for what exactly?)
But the part about Nick Griffin being exposed and seen for the piece of **** he is because he was ridiculed in debate. Silencing these folk does nothing but make them look like the victims and us, the oppressors.

Griffin is an asshat and a scumbag, but I am not sure putting him on the same shelf as ISIL is wholly true.
Griffin is a racist and bigoted twat.....but he is not trying to carry out racial genocide and his ultimate goal, as far as I am aware, is not to enslave the world under a sharia law caliphate.

As for Muslim speaking out against ISIL, I really don't see why they should have to. Does the pope have to give a statement every time some Catholic nutjob does something crazy? Does the Queen, as Head of the Church of England, have to come out with a speech everytime some CoE guy goes mental?

The fact that ISIL claim to be islamists is irrelevant, they are no more Islamist than I am, if we are defining Islam by its modern standards.

The Quran and Bible are full of violent ****, both.
On one page god is cursing someones children because THEY did something wrong (Punishing them for the sins of the father).
Then on the next page he is all forgiving, all loving, and willing to accept those who repent.
All religion is totally contradictory and is utter bullshit when taken at face value.

 

A curates egg of a post that wanders all over.

If ISIS are claiming to be Islamic (the clue is in the name) I'd say it's a primary concern for non-Isis Muslims, and they should be at the front of the queue to engage in opening up a debate to show that they don't represent their views. Failing to do that risks having people believe they share the same values.

 

Boost for May on free movement: Merkel hints at new migration limit as Boris savages EU's open borders
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-savages-EU-s-open-borders.html#ixzz4QAA6LyWn

 

It really shouldn't need to be said.
Muslims have lived alongside us in droves in this very country for the last 50 years.
All of a sudden they just decided, out of the ****ing blue, to blow everyone up?

This isn't a religious problem, it's a cultural one.
EVERY religion, when taken at face value, is ****ing brutal.
There's a verse in the bible that talks of forcing women who have been unfaithful to drink poison to make them bleed out their impurity.

Only ****ing morons would equate ISIL with the whole of Islam. And only because Right Wing ****ing rags like the Daily Mail push that narrative.

 

They dont come put and just say it, course they dont but its in their language.
For example, during the Irish troubles, everytime the IRA did a bombing, I dont recall headlines screaming "Catholic Terrorists commit bombing"
If a catholic becomes a terrorist he is labelled as just "A Terrorist" if a muslim becomes a terrorist he is labelled "An islamic terrorist".

They know that a large percentage of morons wont read past the headline.
So they stand on the precipice. Saying it but not actually saying it.
Its the caveat they use. "Well I didnt say ALLLLL muslims, did I?"
No, but you made the distinction, knowing what it would lead to, because they have an agenda.

 

Of course, all extremism that discriminates in terms of religion, race, creed, gender, should be challlenged.

Challenging their views is opening it up to debate. Stifling debate is what these people want. They don't like it have their views challenged. They have their doctrine and will accept no deviation from that.

ISIL should be confronted on all fronts. Militarily, because there's no other option, they have to be stopped. And, just as importantly, ideologically. They need to have their view of the Koran challenged and denounced. And it needs to be done by senior Muslim figures, who have the respect of the Muslim community. Many will not listen to the 'the infidels'

 

But anyone who doesnt buy in to their ideology is an infidel, regardless of their religion.
ISIS kill many many, many more fellow muslims than they do any of the other religions.
Being a muslim carries no weight, with them.

 

Have you got anything to support that comment?
Or is it just more unjustified ranting?

 

The terrorists had no commitment to a religion in Ireland. They wanted the whole of Ireland to be united. You should be able to see the difference but either you can't or you don't want to.

 

You can't give people like Griffin any space. He's a dangerous racist and white supremacist.

It's easy to say that he wouldn't go to the lengths that ISIL would. Maybe not, but would you feel comfortable giving him the chance?

Hitler was viewed as an extremist fruitcake in his early days. But he was given a chance to put his views into action, and look what he went on to do!...

So, in my view, you take zero chances with people like Griffin. He's cunning, intelligent, and potentially very dangerous.

 

No, but my point is that by being denounced by senior, highly respected Muslim figures, you drastically reduce, and hopefully eventually cut off their supply of recruits.

The impressionable young Muslims need to be told clearly, this is not what God wants. And anybody who joins ISIL will be excommunicated from the faith and denounced as a heretic.

 

Yes, see post 15329.

The fact that they claim to be islamists is irrelevant.
They are just out to kill anyone and everyone who does not believe in their ideology, including actual muslims.
And as I have already pointed out, ISIS kill more muslims than they do Christians, Jews or any other religion combined.

 

that doesn't support your comment.

 

My point is that it makes no ****ing difference whatsoever what religion they belonged to.
Didn't with the IRA, doesn't with ISIL.
They are just crazy nutjobs who need to be stopped.
Of course the Mail leave out tiny details like ISIL actually kill around 1000 muslims a day.

 

Of course you wouldnt see that, dont know why I tried.

 

because what you say is illogical
you are just ranting without any justification