Off Topic Politics Thread
- Thread starter ChilcoSaint
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What a terrible thought.
A step back in time to closed shops. I know not everyone will agree but I'm glad they are illegal in this country. Freedom to choose whether to join a union should be protected in my opinion. Keep unions out of politics so they can concentrate on protecting their members.The Labour party is there for the political side.
I think that the election of Trump and the popularity of Farage are precisely why Labour must move towards the Left and explains the popularity of Momentum. I don't belong to any political party but thought that the SWP had been destroyed by infighting and was no longer viable.
If everyone belonged to a Trade Union, them the political affiliations would be more diverse and there is a better chance that they would behave in a sensible manner. We forget that the economy is there is serve the people whereas most Govt these days works on the function that the people must serve the economy. Labour under Corbyn recognise this and they just need to keep posting this mantra and they will walk in to power when the wheels come off after Brexit.
The biggest disappointment for me is that Labour has not backed EU membership insofar that is sees it as a tool of globalisation and big enterprise. This is their big mistake as the EU does a lot for human rights. I think they should have been more enthusiastic for it in the referendum but maybe could have worked with other socialist parties in the member states to ensure that an agenda that favours people ahead of enterprise is promoted.
He'll probably let Nigel Farage claim it - after all, he's still getting paid as an MEP.
Momentum is not popular. It is a small organisation of less than 10,000 members that mobilises others through social media just as Soros' groups like MoveOn are doing on the streets of America.
These smallish groups set the ball rolling making things look spontaneous or in "good faith" and others join in. The huge numbers are not part of the group. The group just gets the ball rolling and then fuels the fire. Exactly the same thing as they accuse the right of doing.
The SWP's membership was 2,500 in 2013 and all of these parties membership's are on the rise with the advent of Corbyn.
SWP "high rankers" are on the boards of many of the other groups like UAF and Stop the War.
Everyone does not want to belong to a trade union. You are sounding like a full on far left socialist or communist there. Many people are tired of the unions playing games with their lives for their own gain or for their political agendas.
You are right on your assertion that governments (of both sides) have the economy-people link the wrong way round at the moment but unions will not help that. Not the way they work these days. They are full on political beasts these days. You are in dreamland if you think the public are going to vote Corbyn in with this far left unionised and activist led approach.
Labour (Corbyn/Unions) aren't backing Europe because they want out. They keep up the facade that they want to stay in so that they can maintain their liberal voterbase while they work out how to reclaim their working class heartland base. Labour moderates/Blairites want to remain in because they are full on uber capitalists and see people as minions to feed the economy.
The problem we have is that while everybody is very quick to jump on right wing activism or populists they do not seem to care about the left wing version cheered on by Comrade Corbyn.
When you see on the news "100 arrests at EDL protest as things turn violent" they never detail that only a handful of EDL were arrested and it was the leftist mob charging in that were 95% of the arrests.
Look at the US. The media are not showing the "Rape Melania" signs nor talking about the fact that rapemelania was in the top 10 trends until pointed out. When Symone Sanders was on CNN the other night and asked by a pannelist "what about the white Trump supporter that was dragged out of his car and beaten up" she replied live on air "Oh my goodness, poor white people. Please, oh my — stop it."
She was Bernie Sanders' press secretary. Where is the disgust at these statements?
The left as it is across the world needs to sort itself out because even as a Tory voter making light of the Tories being so far ahead with a possible landslide at the next election I don't want that to happen. A majority? Yes, but not so big that they can do whatever they want without fear of stumbling blocks. That is not good for deomcracy even if it is the party you support.
The sooner Labour give up on Corbyn and his activists as well as drop this faux-liberal nonsense from the champagne socialists and get their house in order the better for all of us.
For that to happen the left/liberals need to do some introspection instead of stubbornly saying "we are perfect, it's the right that are wrong."
A message from my new mate Jeremy. Can't say I'm sure about him yet, but I can't argue with any of this, and he says it all better than I could;
Last week's US Presidential election result was a global wake-up call.
Whether in the US or the UK, people are feeling left behind – marginalised by an economic system that makes them work harder for less, while hoovering up ever greater rewards for a small elite.
People are right to be angry. Our political and economic system is delivering rising inequality and falling living standards.
Young people today find it harder to get a home of their own, harder to find good secure jobs, and are landed in lifelong debt simply for wanting an education.
Older people see their children and grandchildren struggling, their libraries and community services cut, their friends’ social care get worse.
They’ve seen politicians privatise what were once our collective assets, and they are paying the higher bills and higher fares as a result.
If we, as socialists, don’t step forward and offer solutions, then into the vacuum step the merchants of hate and blame.
They see the problem, but instead of offering solutions to make people’s lives better, they offer someone to blame.
The Tories do the same. They have opened the door to UKIP and fanned the flames of fear.
The Tories pretend to understand people’s problems, but offer nothing but someone to blame.
Meanwhile, the economy is slowing again. People’s pay still hasn’t recovered from the last recession and housing costs have soared. The Tories are cutting schools’ budgets, have slashed social care and have put the NHS into its worst crisis.
It’s time for our party – half a million strong, with more members than all the other UK parties combined – to get out there to tell people why a Labour government matters.
Our party doesn’t have the benevolence of the press barons, it doesn’t have the donations of billionaires, so please speak to your fellow party members, trade unionists and friends and ask them to take part in our National Campaign Day on Saturday 26 November.
Last week's US Presidential election result was a global wake-up call.
Whether in the US or the UK, people are feeling left behind – marginalised by an economic system that makes them work harder for less, while hoovering up ever greater rewards for a small elite.
People are right to be angry. Our political and economic system is delivering rising inequality and falling living standards.
Young people today find it harder to get a home of their own, harder to find good secure jobs, and are landed in lifelong debt simply for wanting an education.
Older people see their children and grandchildren struggling, their libraries and community services cut, their friends’ social care get worse.
They’ve seen politicians privatise what were once our collective assets, and they are paying the higher bills and higher fares as a result.
If we, as socialists, don’t step forward and offer solutions, then into the vacuum step the merchants of hate and blame.
They see the problem, but instead of offering solutions to make people’s lives better, they offer someone to blame.
The Tories do the same. They have opened the door to UKIP and fanned the flames of fear.
The Tories pretend to understand people’s problems, but offer nothing but someone to blame.
Meanwhile, the economy is slowing again. People’s pay still hasn’t recovered from the last recession and housing costs have soared. The Tories are cutting schools’ budgets, have slashed social care and have put the NHS into its worst crisis.
It’s time for our party – half a million strong, with more members than all the other UK parties combined – to get out there to tell people why a Labour government matters.
Our party doesn’t have the benevolence of the press barons, it doesn’t have the donations of billionaires, so please speak to your fellow party members, trade unionists and friends and ask them to take part in our National Campaign Day on Saturday 26 November.
Come on Archers. HE starts off well, then starts saying that people don't look for solutions just someone to blame and then blames the Tories for letting UKIP in!!!
There is a lot of stuff that does not get covered on mainstream media because they can't possibly cover everything. So let's say that 40% of events go uncovered. And, we'll even throw in some bias there and say that 30% of things favorable to the right are not covered, while only 10% of things favorable to the left are uncovered.
When all you do is read right wing news sites that talk about what the mainstream media miss, then you end up with the feeling that mainstream media is biased and incomplete. What you don't do is ask yourself what the right wing media misses.... which is virtually everything that is not far right. You are now missing 90% of events, and that 90% is all stuff that is favorable to the left.
So you are actually much less informed and poorly informed, but you feel just the opposite because in your head you are now getting 100% of the far right favorable news instead of just 70%.
When all you do is read right wing news sites that talk about what the mainstream media miss, then you end up with the feeling that mainstream media is biased and incomplete. What you don't do is ask yourself what the right wing media misses.... which is virtually everything that is not far right. You are now missing 90% of events, and that 90% is all stuff that is favorable to the left.
So you are actually much less informed and poorly informed, but you feel just the opposite because in your head you are now getting 100% of the far right favorable news instead of just 70%.
At least we both agree he started well.And Cameron did let Ukip in - he handed them their opportunity at precisely the wrong (or right depending on your point of view) moment in history.
Britain has no overall strategy for leaving the European Union and splits in Prime Minister Theresa May's cabinet could delay a clear negotiating position for six months, according to a memo for the government that was leaked to The Times newspaper.
The document, prepared by consultancy firm Deloitte for the government department that supports the prime minister and her cabinet, casts Britain's top team in a chaotic light: May is trying to control key Brexit questions herself while her senior ministers are divided and the civil service is in turmoil.
"The Prime Minister is rapidly acquiring the reputation of drawing in decisions and details to settle matters herself - which is unlikely to be sustainable," according to the document, dated Nov. 7 and published by The Times.
"It may be 6 months before there is a view on priorities/negotiation strategy as the political situation in the UK and the EU evolves," said the document, titled "Brexit Update".
May's spokeswoman said the Deloitte memo was unsolicited, had nothing to do with the government and had no credence. Deloitte declined immediate comment.
"It was not commissioned by the government," May's spokeswoman told reporters. "It does seem as though this is a firm touting for business now aided by the media."
But such a disorderly portrayal of the government underscores both the extent of the turmoil unleashed by the June 23 vote to leave the EU and the uncertainties ahead as May tries to pull Britain out of the world's biggest trading bloc.
Like the Brexit vote, Donald Trump's victory in the United States has underscored how swiftly assumptions are being turned upside down, pushing governments, investors and chief executives into the unknown.
The pound fell as much as 1.3 percent to 87.07 pence per euro EURGBP=D4 following the memo leak before recovering to 86.92 pence. It also lost more than half a percent to $1.2417. GBP=D4
'NO COMMON STRATEGY'
The memo said no common strategy had emerged, partly as a result of splits within the government and partly due to the evolving political situation in the rest of the EU where both France and Germany face major elections in 2017.
May's cabinet is split, with Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson, Trade Minister Liam Fox and Brexit Minister David Davis - who all campaigned to leave the EU - on one side and finance minister Philip Hammond and Business Secretary Greg Clark - who wanted to remain - on the other, according to the memo.
May's priority, it said, is survival and keeping her ruling Conservative Party together, rather than business or economic considerations.
"Industry has 2 unpleasant realizations - first, that the Government's priority remains its political survival, not the economy," the memo said.
"Second, that there will be no clear economic-Brexit strategy any time soon because it is being developed on a case-by-case basis as specific decisions are forced on Government."
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-br..._medium=Social
Lol
The document, prepared by consultancy firm Deloitte for the government department that supports the prime minister and her cabinet, casts Britain's top team in a chaotic light: May is trying to control key Brexit questions herself while her senior ministers are divided and the civil service is in turmoil.
"The Prime Minister is rapidly acquiring the reputation of drawing in decisions and details to settle matters herself - which is unlikely to be sustainable," according to the document, dated Nov. 7 and published by The Times.
"It may be 6 months before there is a view on priorities/negotiation strategy as the political situation in the UK and the EU evolves," said the document, titled "Brexit Update".
May's spokeswoman said the Deloitte memo was unsolicited, had nothing to do with the government and had no credence. Deloitte declined immediate comment.
"It was not commissioned by the government," May's spokeswoman told reporters. "It does seem as though this is a firm touting for business now aided by the media."
But such a disorderly portrayal of the government underscores both the extent of the turmoil unleashed by the June 23 vote to leave the EU and the uncertainties ahead as May tries to pull Britain out of the world's biggest trading bloc.
Like the Brexit vote, Donald Trump's victory in the United States has underscored how swiftly assumptions are being turned upside down, pushing governments, investors and chief executives into the unknown.
The pound fell as much as 1.3 percent to 87.07 pence per euro EURGBP=D4 following the memo leak before recovering to 86.92 pence. It also lost more than half a percent to $1.2417. GBP=D4
'NO COMMON STRATEGY'
The memo said no common strategy had emerged, partly as a result of splits within the government and partly due to the evolving political situation in the rest of the EU where both France and Germany face major elections in 2017.
May's cabinet is split, with Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson, Trade Minister Liam Fox and Brexit Minister David Davis - who all campaigned to leave the EU - on one side and finance minister Philip Hammond and Business Secretary Greg Clark - who wanted to remain - on the other, according to the memo.
May's priority, it said, is survival and keeping her ruling Conservative Party together, rather than business or economic considerations.
"Industry has 2 unpleasant realizations - first, that the Government's priority remains its political survival, not the economy," the memo said.
"Second, that there will be no clear economic-Brexit strategy any time soon because it is being developed on a case-by-case basis as specific decisions are forced on Government."
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-br..._medium=Social
Lol
Britain has no overall strategy for leaving the European Union and splits in Prime Minister Theresa May's cabinet could delay a clear negotiating position for six months, according to a memo for the government that was leaked to The Times newspaper.
The document, prepared by consultancy firm Deloitte for the government department that supports the prime minister and her cabinet, casts Britain's top team in a chaotic light: May is trying to control key Brexit questions herself while her senior ministers are divided and the civil service is in turmoil.
"The Prime Minister is rapidly acquiring the reputation of drawing in decisions and details to settle matters herself - which is unlikely to be sustainable," according to the document, dated Nov. 7 and published by The Times.
"It may be 6 months before there is a view on priorities/negotiation strategy as the political situation in the UK and the EU evolves," said the document, titled "Brexit Update".
May's spokeswoman said the Deloitte memo was unsolicited, had nothing to do with the government and had no credence. Deloitte declined immediate comment.
"It was not commissioned by the government," May's spokeswoman told reporters. "It does seem as though this is a firm touting for business now aided by the media."
But such a disorderly portrayal of the government underscores both the extent of the turmoil unleashed by the June 23 vote to leave the EU and the uncertainties ahead as May tries to pull Britain out of the world's biggest trading bloc.
Like the Brexit vote, Donald Trump's victory in the United States has underscored how swiftly assumptions are being turned upside down, pushing governments, investors and chief executives into the unknown.
The pound fell as much as 1.3 percent to 87.07 pence per euro EURGBP=D4 following the memo leak before recovering to 86.92 pence. It also lost more than half a percent to $1.2417. GBP=D4
'NO COMMON STRATEGY'
The memo said no common strategy had emerged, partly as a result of splits within the government and partly due to the evolving political situation in the rest of the EU where both France and Germany face major elections in 2017.
May's cabinet is split, with Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson, Trade Minister Liam Fox and Brexit Minister David Davis - who all campaigned to leave the EU - on one side and finance minister Philip Hammond and Business Secretary Greg Clark - who wanted to remain - on the other, according to the memo.
May's priority, it said, is survival and keeping her ruling Conservative Party together, rather than business or economic considerations.
"Industry has 2 unpleasant realizations - first, that the Government's priority remains its political survival, not the economy," the memo said.
"Second, that there will be no clear economic-Brexit strategy any time soon because it is being developed on a case-by-case basis as specific decisions are forced on Government."
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-br..._medium=Social
Lol
http://news.sky.com/story/brexit-plan-there-is-no-government-strategy-leaked-memo-reveals-10658080
Nothing to see here:
'The leaked memo, which claimed the Government had no plan for Brexit, was drawn up by an accountancy firm "touting for business", Number 10 has said.
A spokeswoman for Downing Street said the "unsolicited" document had "nothing to do with the Government" and had "no credence".
She added it was drawn up by someone who "has not been inside Number 10 or engaged with number 10 since the Prime Minister has been in Government".'
Asked about Donald Trump’s election victory, Johnson said: “There is every reason to be positive. Donald Trump is dealmaker, he is a guy who believes firmly in values that I believe in too — freedom and democracy. As far as I understand he is in many aspects a liberal guy from New York.”
http://www.politico.eu/article/boris...-brexit-trump/
****ing hell
http://www.politico.eu/article/boris...-brexit-trump/
****ing hell
They first said they "don't recognise" the memo, then it was an external contractor who wrote it (it was), and they're now trying to say the company the contractor was working for (Deloitte) did work for Osborne and Cameron in May so it must have been written then (even though it references recent events and they've previously admitted that Deloitte are doing Brexit related work for the 3 stooges departments)
Damn changing their minds a lot....