The EU debate - Part III

Not all, no. I'd say that of the ones I meet most often, they're decent hard working people. The ones I met that didn't work were good company too to be fair.

 

Pointless and shows that you're ignorant of the area.

 

There's a large Polish and Latvian contingent in parts of Hull. Not sure on the exact figures but it'll have definitely increased since the last Census.

 

That certainly tallies with my experience.

 

Nah, **** that ****.
If Farage can swan about threatening everyone with riots, then him and his lot can go **** themselves.
They bullshitted their way through a joke campaign which has been referred to the CPS.
They can't even agree on what was voted for.

If we can't get a good deal on leaving, which we clearly can't, then going ahead with it is utterly stupid.
We didn't elect hundreds of politicians to commit economic suicide for the benefit of Murdoch and his ilk.
The referendum wasn't binding and the result was very close. The MPs know it's a dumb idea.

 

They're just filling the space that Pete left when he moved down South, though.

 

And mine.

 

Yeah, **** me and my facts! Typical.

 

I agree with the sentiment and I make you right, but I also believe in democracy, and it was what it was.

If they called another one tomorrow I think there'd be a different result personally, but that isn't going to happen, and we therefore have to live it.

The scenario spelt out earlier by Hull and me would be a compromise that might appease all but the racists and mind bendingly stupid, well **** them on that we agree.

 

It's not democracy if the voters have been intentionally misinformed and deceived for years, though.
Telling people a load of **** and then saying that they backed a result based upon that **** should not be seen as a viable tactic.

The racists and the mind-bendingly stupid are as entitled to vote as anyone, as we've clearly seen.
They've been empowered by this campaign and various others around the world right now.
It's a pretty horrific turn of events. We're going backwards.

 

Again we largely agree, it's a false democracy if a proportion of the voters have been lead with lies and false promises, BUT to ignore the result and stick the whole thing in the bin because we think it's wrong, isn't democratic either.

The only thing left is for us to get out with as little damage as possible, and that isn't going to happen if the entire process is left to a pair of right wing ****s like Davis and Fox. The need reigning in and given clear instruction.

 

Putting it to the MPs and having them shoot it down is perfectly democratic.
It wasn't a binding referendum and the result was based on crap.
They're elected to do exactly this sort of thing. If people don't like it, then they can vote them out in future.

The problem is that the arseholes at the Fail and Express will try and cause riots off the back of it.
They're not getting exactly what they've attempted to deceive people into voting for, so they're calling for violence.
That's definitely not democracy.

 

That's why the referendum was a stupid idea. In short, it gave too much say to too many uninformed idiots and allowed the racists and xenophobes to give vent to their long held prejudices.

Cameron made a total **** out of firstly calling it, and secondly selling the remain case.

I have to add that Corbyn was a about as much use to the campaign as a parachute with a hole in it. If he'd got out there in the constituencies and made it clear to some of the ****witted that this wasn't a party political issue, but a matter of deciding the course of the nation for a generation or more; and that their best interests were in voting to remain, we might have got a different result.

Instead, as has been made clear since, many voted leave simply because if Cameron and the Tories were for it, they were against.

 

I agree with you, but they voted for a bunch of Tories, who were up against some other Tories.
The Lib Dems are dead and Corbyn was anti-EU anyway, so he wanted out, just not at this time.

Voting for Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson and a city trader who joined the Tories because of Enoch Powell?
Not very much of a snub for the decadent elite, is it?

 

It was the racially motivated who voted at Farage's instigation. Neither Corbyn nor anybody else was going to change their minds as they were motivated solely by keeping the foreigners and muzzies out.

However, the purely ignorant, uninformed and ****witted could, I believe, have been swayed by a simple but coherent argument explaining how they would be worse off economically.

Corbyn failed to deliver anything like that; and it was disengenious of him to pretend to support the remain campaign if he had no intention of backing it fully.

 

Corbyn couldn't really endorse the EU, as he's always been against it.
The only reason that he backed the Remain campaign on this vote was because of who it would empower.
Having this particular band of authoritarian Tory ****houses with nobody reigning them in would and will be a disaster.

 

They can't shoot it down mate, all they can do is put some holes in it.

If they went against it and threw it out there'd be hell on, and it wouldn't sit right with me.

Plus it'd further fuel UKIP and the far right, they'd achieve a huge upsurge in support at the expense of the Tories, and the issue wouldn't go away.

No, we've got to deal with the fact that we're leaving, and just ensure that we leave in the most painless way possible.

What we can't do is kowtow to the racists

 

Then I would repeat, it would have been far better if Corbyn had been honest. I realise that's a virtually non existent trait amongst politicians, but he likes to pride himself on being just that.

I would still maintain that a far more effective campaign for remain by the Labour Party could have possibly swung the result.

As has been said the voting swing needed was less than 700,000 from over 33mill votes cast.

 

Pissing off some idiots or wrecking the country? I'll go with the former.
We'll end up leaving, because the politicians are too cowardly to do their jobs and stick to what they know is the right decision.
That doesn't mean it's the correct choice, though.

 

Agreed.

Core Labour strongholds going the way of Leave demonstrated that the message that the economic fallout would hit the working class the hardest - again - simply didn't hit home.