Well a points deduction wouldn't affect Scotland! As for us - save us having to be embarrassed at the World Cup.. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37853386 What a sad state of affairs that we could be punished for trying to show respect... No wonder people think football is out of touch.
this is quite an interesting read. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/01/wearing-poppy-meaningful-voluntary-footballers
A good article Zen. The Poppy is worn for all British war dead - wherever they died, and whatever they were doing at the time. Bearing in mind that the concentration camps of the Boer War killed 10% of the entire Boer population. How many also died in the torture camps of Aden, in the 1960s ? Or in the Amritsar massacre in India - or in Cyprus ? Or in the crushing of the Iraqi revolution in 1920 - where chemical weapons were used by the British on defenceless civilians. Or the 1.5 million Kenyans herded into concentration camps. Didn't Harry Roberts say that he got the taste for killing whilst serving in Malaysia - apparently particularly relishing it when the order came through to execute prisoners. The 'Poppy' is being worn for many of those who actually did these things - for many of the perpetrators of the horrific crimes of the British empire. But it is also being worn for my grandfather, who died several years after the battle of the Somme, having been gassed there. So yes, it has to be voluntary. I have never worn one, but, if I did, it would be for my grandfather and many of his generation - but only for them. Many times we forget that the 2 World Wars were the only ones in history which were justified from a British point of view (and the first of those is questionable).
Wearing a poppy used to be a quiet act of rememberance. Now it has become a symbol of nationalism. I don't believe that a poppy belongs on a football shirt. To put it there makes it a fashion accessory. Now I wait to be flamed.
Not by me. I find the whole hype surrounding them to be distasteful and think that, like many things in life, the wearing or not wearing of them should be down to individual choice - not public/political expectation.
Staying on the Poppy theme - I've never really understood how it became a symbol of remembrance of the horrors of war. I can remember reading at school (that in itself was a rare enough occurrence) that it was inspired by the John McCrae poem 'In Flanders Fields', which to my mind tended to promote violence - especially this part: Take up our quarrel with the foe: To you from failing hands we throw The torch; be yours to hold it high. If ye break faith with us who die We shall not sleep, though poppies grow In Flanders fields. Mind you, poetry ranks extremely low on my list of interesting things, so maybe I'm simply misinterpreting it...
The message I the poem is from the fallen fighting (rightly or wrongly)for their countries saying "do not let our deaths be in vain" try looking up the inscription on the plaque to commemorate the allied soldiers who died preventing the Japanese invasion of India at Kohema The poppies came about because as soon as the war ended the birds began singing and poppies grew overnight where the soldiers on both sides died during the various battles If you cannot understand or appreciate that then go find another country to live where is doesn't, matter
... which took place nearly 30 years after the poem was penned and around 13 after general recognition of the poppy as a remembrance symbol, so could in no way be sad to have been an influence behind the original meaning. Regardless, the lines 'do not let our deaths be in vain' & 'take up our quarrel with the foe' still imply something akin to 'continue fighting'. If that's what you believe in, good luck to you - but it's not something I particularly subscribe to. A bit of poetic licence perhaps? Totally ignoring the fact that the war ended in November, the cusp of winter, and poppies - as quick growing as they may be - certainly don't grow overnight, and flower in early summer... Get real - why on earth should I 'go and find a different country' just because I hold a differing viewpoint to you? Am I to take it that you incorrectly think that the wearing of the poppy is a 'British institution'? All I can take from that is that you could well be a Tory/UKIP 'Leave' voter who is suffering from angst over recent developments - and is lashing out in frustration.
I believe the significance of the poppy is that it grows in the battlefields and is blood red implying that the colour is created by the soldiers' blood!
As a result of the explosives hitting the ground in the first world war, I forget which specific battlefield, poppy seeds which had been buried and laid dormant for a long time were brought to the surface and in the spring came into flower over large expanses of land. This was this was why the poppy was chosen as a flower of remembrance.
Get real - why on earth should I 'go and find a different country' just because I hold a differing viewpoint to you? Am I to take it that you incorrectly think that the wearing of the poppy is a 'British institution'? No that is why I said countries not country I am not a Tory, I vote liberal and voted to remain The reason I take issue with you is because you have been anti English in most of your comment on the political threads Your comments on football in general and Watford in particular I have enjoyed reading and generally agree with The political threads have turned this forum toxic
I would think that a debate about the poppy would usually be on the political thread but as this was started by a decision by FIFA it ended up on here - something else to blame them for!
I tend to agree with you - politics, in similar manner to religion, can & do have a tendency to turn discussions toxic, but without dissent and argument we'd never get things changed. And I tend to disagree with you about your above sentence - i am most certainly not anti-English. What I openly admit to is being anti-Westminster/Establishment - there's a whole world of difference.
BB We will have to agree to disagree on politics, although I am not a Tory I detest Labour for what they did to the UK during the Blair/Brown administration I do not agree that selling poppies to honour the fallen and provide funding for surviving servicemen/women equals support for the Establishment We owe our right to freedom of speech to the men/women who died in our defence, part of the inscription at Kohema says "we gave our today for you to have your tomorrow" we dishonour them if we forget that I do not support war and am grateful my children did not have to go through what my parents etc did Lets just all agree on Watford FC
As it happens I agree with you on politics - I am no fan of either the Tories or Labour. They are one and the same imo. I do consider myself lucky to currently live in a country with the only viable answer to both - Scotland. No argument from me about Watford either
