Trouble with that is that it will then be tested to see how far you can go. If Argentina then come to play at Wembley and all wear undershirts saying "HMS Sheffield Got what it Deserved" and all rip off their tops when Argentina score it could potentially provoke a riot. I realise that it is a very extreme example but I am sure that is what FIFA are trying to guard against. I just think we don't need to make an issue out of this - there are plenty of other ways of remembering those who died and 22 spoilt brats kicking seven-bells out of each other, swearing at the referee, shirt-pulling etc, with a Poppy symbol on their shirt is not it. What would be interesting would be if FIFA actually came out before the game and say that both teams will be subject to a points deduction if they go ahead - of course it wont matter for the Scots for obvious reasons, they will be happy for the excuse when they dont qualify but I would respect the English FA a lot more if they still went ahead with it. It might also have the effect of Scotland finishing a World Cup Campaign with minus points which would also be funny. Many Sports Associations impose restrictions on what can and can't be worn when competing - FIFA has their's. We have requested a dispensation, they have said no, live with it and plan something other form of commemoration.
There are plenty of other ways mate, but this is our traditional way and it's not something we should be looking to change because of this new era of do-gooders who frantically search for anything to get offended by, or that others could be offended by. The trouble with your example there is that it's not tradition and it's certainly intended to provoke. I understand you might see it differently, but just because you do, it doesn't mean everybody has to, including footballers.
Do you know that they sanctioned that? Or did Argentina just whip it out as it were? Any request for a banner like that would obviously be turned down by FIFA under their rules today.
So based on what the poppy represents, will FIFA now ban all pre-match 1 minute silences globally that would be to respect somebody that has died?
No they don't. That is why they fined Argentina £20,000 for doing that. If it hadn't been a friendly then they would also have faced a points deduction too apparently.
That's the thing though, is it a tradition? How many times have England worn a top that had a poppy printed on it? I think it's a relatively new thing. It wouldn't bother me in the slightest if they did wear it, I just don't think it's a big enough issue to make an incident out of. Nobody is stopping anyone wearing a poppy with their clothes before and after a match. The difference with makeup, wonderbras and fake tits is that none of those are part of the uniform. If it really is that big a deal to the FA, then I'd prefer to see them 'fine' themselves for not wearing a poppy and donate £20,000 to the British legion.
Storm in a teacup. Not a symbol of religion or politics. Remembrance. FA PR in overdrive though. Just wear the damn thing or don't. Stop all this making statements etc which are basically designed to curry favour with the public and gather back some traction after the Big Sam debacle. I don't know why we don't just get on with these things and do as we please. If FIFA want to make an issue of it let them try. It doesn't help thought that our politicians can't keep their nose out http://www.joe.co.uk/sport/dup-politician-says-james-mcclean-wrong-not-wear-poppy/95332 that does then make FIFAs case it is political when it isn't. Why is he sticking his nose in? McClean should be allowed not to wear one if he so wishes and should not be punished not for doing so. Equally FIFA should have the common sense to be able to work out what is and isn't politically motivated (I'm all shirts and football in general not be used as a vehicle in that way!) I don't give a **** either way and there are far better ways for the FA to show their goodwill towards this
Football has nothing to do with it, this is a national tradition of people, not footballers. If it's relatively new that footballers are doing it, it doesn't make any difference. Why FIFA would intervene at this point, when we're playing Scotland of all teams, I have no idea. I think they're looking for a reason to rattle the cages of the English FA and UK media who have been on their case for years over bungs and corruption over awarding **** like Qatar a World Cup tournament to host. It comes down to common sense mate, there's nothing whatsoever to justify the stupidest decision by a governing body that is desperately trying to regain trust and confidence.
I agree that banning it is stupid. I just think it's not worth the effort of arguing over when it doesn't stop us respecting or remembering the fallen. I also don't trust the moral high ground taken by the likes of the FA and the likes of the S*n and the Daily Fail who shout the loudest about these moral campaigns. I just think the ones who shout loudest about this sort of thing (institutions and organisations - not individuals) are usually morally bankrupt themselves.
I edited to say I couldn't give a ****. Personally its not something I would do. You can wear a poppy any time and the FA have deep enough pockets to make a greater difference if they so wanted. If they wear one then so be it. I couldn't give a flying **** either way - it is entirely typical of the modern society to make issues where there are none. **** me there are more important battles to fight - particularly in relation to our armed forces.
So if FIFA banned the poppy from football shirts in any shape or form, you'd be ok with that? It's not worth arguing about if you don't care about it. I've served and have seen people's lives wrecked by war, I see the poppy as a small gesture that means a hell of a lot to a lot of people. You have your stance and I have mine, this would deeply upset me if our FA bowed to them ****ing rats inside FIFA.
I've lost close relatives serving in the armed forces, but I just don't see that wearing a poppy on a football shirt makes a big difference. I just wish we could get this much public interest in making sure that when we send people to war they have all of the equipment they need and that when they come home they are looked after and funded rather than being discarded. I care a lot about the issues. I just don't think that whether we wear a poppy on our football shirts IS the issue.
That's fine, that's your opinion and I'll not bother trying to change it. I'm not for one minute suggesting that wearing a poppy is all that needs done to honour soldiers of past and present, but it certainly doesn't need interfered with, by a sporting body that has more pressing issues.
I'd have no issue at all if the Argies remembered their fallen too by wearing symbols. It's the innocents on both sides who die in war not the aggressors. My issue is that such a corrupt and morally bankrupt organisation as FIFA have the temerity to attempt to preach to the country who brought them to their knees (our journos began the chain of implosion).
